this team would immediately make more sense to me. I remain unconvinced over Gibson but i think he would improve upon Whelan immensely.Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
the perfect midfield is steven reid, keith fahey and stephen ireland. imagine faheys passing ability, steven reids smart crisp short passing and steven ireland well he has everything. we'd be such a slick team and hard to beat as well.
this team would immediately make more sense to me. I remain unconvinced over Gibson but i think he would improve upon Whelan immensely.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Belgium ?
Lost 4-2 at home to Bosnia last night.
I dont think so, but I take your point.
"Football is a game you play with your brain".
Picked the same team out last night. Kilbane is a liability at full back. But he offers more than Hunt going forward. McShane treats the ball like a hot potato. Terrible distibution. But Trap will not make the changes he needs to make. I have a horrible feeling Miller is going to play a part at some stage on Wednesday.
I'd say Bosnia would beat us tbh. Besides the point anyway, but look this is what Belgium can call from for midfield, Defour, Witsel, Felliani, Kompany etc.
Scotlands midfield has at least something about it, Brown, Fletcher and Ferguson, Swedends midfield looks a bit unispiring but you'd bet they wouldn't just blatantly allow a team to pass by them for 90 minutes.
Ours Andrews and Whelan, both players playing for poor teams and neither certain of a place. Same applies for Andy Reid, Steven Reid(derided by Blackburn fans) I know its for another day, but where are our players coming throug? Garvan, O'Toole, Gleeson, all alright but nothing that impressive. The only hope I can see is James McCarthy and he's not even born here(by that i mean not even 'produced' here) and hopefully be the 2012 campaign a Steven Ireland return.
Last edited by irishultra; 29/03/2009 at 5:08 PM.
I dislike him as much as you but even Miller would have tried to move it along late last night.
If McGeady is out for Bari as is suggested then I can only think there are 2 candidates to play RHM - Miller & Keogh, and even Keogh only on the basis that Trap has picked him before.
Ireland are usless that mcshane is probely the worst player i have ever seen..O'dea with celtic should be starting
We have lost one friendly in 8 games. Yeah Bosnia would beat us all right.
We knew when getting Trap, that that's the way he plays. It has got us the results. It has got him results and trophies all his life. It's not pretty, but it's damn effective.
Too many people want entertainment over results.When it's the latter, not the former we need.
Don't know where the Daily Mail gets their point system from. Seems they watched 5 minutes of the game and gave the rankings on that.
Hunt-8(Man of the match). They said that the Bulgarian defenders will be having nightmares about him. Excluding the first 30 seconds Hunt was poor and his touch was woeful.
Whealan 7, Andrews 5 - I thought Andrews was easily our better midfielder on the night. Think he wuld work very well beside S. Reid
Think last night should prove how vital Doyle is to our campaign. Much more important to us than Keane
Sorry for the long post, but having watched the full game again in the cold light of day, i have the following comments to make:
Post match reaction/Traps system:
Yes a missed opportunity, yes a disappointing performance but we are still in a very good position and its all in our own hands. The reaction of some of the press and some "fans" is unreal. Trap has a system in place that is not entertaining to watch but generally its effective. We knew when we hired Trap that this is the style of football that we would end up playing. As long as it gets the results that is the main thing.
The team is very organised from a defensive point of view. Bulgaria had the lions share of possession last night but if you look at the game again the vast majority of it was in front of and across Irelands midfield/defence. When they approached the last quarter, they were closed down by the midfielders. Generally this worked quite well and most of Bulgarias effort were from distance. The problem was when Ireland won the ball back they were unable to retain it for very long. Its not a positive system and not very pretty but Traps viewpoint is not to concede first and foremost.
A positive of this system is the strength of a centre back pairing. The way the system operates should suit the type of game that Wed is likely to be. Unfortunately I feel Italy will have enough quality to break it down. But the way this system works, Ireland will never concede many goals.
S Reid/Possession:
The biggest flaw in the performance last night was the inability of our team to maintain possession. Our central midfielders lack the talent to take the ball down and play it around. Hopefully S Reid will return for the game in June. He is exactly the type of player we need. Someone who is comfortable in possession of the ball and can dictate the play.
Full backs performance:
Poor performance by both KK and McShane last night. Really offered little going forward and the midfield suffered as a result. McShane had a number of opportunities to put in a cross last night but declined each time. He also was fortunate with a number of back passes left short. KK has one of his worst games for Ireland last night but I expect the guy to atone for this on wed night. He is still in general a solid left back.
Hunt V Duff:
Hunt started the game on fire but unfortunately lacked the skill to take on his man and put in a cross. Duff brings a level of creativity to our game that unfortunately Hunt cant. He also faded quite badly as the game went on and a frustrating trait of Traps is his resistant to bring on a sub. I really feel fresh legs shouldve been utilised with about 15 mins to go, with Hunt the obvious replacement. I agree that the bench is quite limited and didnt offer many alternatives.
Disgraceful booing:
That t*at who has just posted a new thread about getting rid of Trap is obviously the type of individual who booed the team like night. Nothing short of fcuking disgraceful. What has become of this country. This team is getting the results, yes its not playing pretty football but this is a results business and at the end of the campaign if we're off to the WC, no one will complain. The level of booing at the end was disgraceful last night and is indicative of a section of the crowd that has appeared since we moved to croker that will hopefully disappear once we return to LR. We as supporters are there to support the team, alot of people doesnt seem to grasp this!! If you go to a game to be entertained then please stay away, go the cinema or a concert, please dont attend unless you are going to support your country. At this stage, i look forward to the support at away games more than home games.
S I/A Reid
People can make arguments for the inclusion of A Reid in the squad, i respect that. But please stop this talk of calling for S Ireland return. HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US ACCEPT IT -END OF!!!
Finally, when you see clowns calling for Traps head, it just makes my blood boil. If at the end of the campaign, we have failed to qualify then certain criticism will be justified. However with the results achieved already we are likely to finish this group with more points than the last campaign at least, so even in a worse case scenario that will be an improvement.
Given - 7
McShane - 3
O'Shea - 7
Dunne - 7
Kilbane - 3
McGeady - 4
Whelan - 3
Andrews - 6
Hunt - 4
Keane - 4
Doyle - 7
It was like watching Wimbledon in their pomp. We might as well drop Keane and bring in Doherty if we're just going to lump it long every time we have the ball.
The two full backs were twitchy all night long and did not look comfortable at all. Kilbane should have been replaced - his head was gone. Brilliant servant to the Irish team but he is not a left back. Whelan looks like a lost boy in the middle of the park.
The team looked out on their feet after the hour mark (not surprising since Bulgaria were playing keep ball for the majority of the match) and the Trap only brings a sub on in the 90th minute? Baffling. Fresh legs can change games. Why not take one of the strikers off and put on an extra central midfielder when it was clear for all to see that Bulgaria were dominating possession?
Ok we haven't got many top players but surely we can muster a better performance than that? What we lack in skill can be compensated by endeavour and aggression. Instead we looked flat and short of courage in terms of taking the game by the scruff of the neck after we took the lead.
i was in the lower davin last night and didnt hear any boos at the end?
was there much of it???
I was in the signing section and didn't hear anything but it was pretty clear on TV.
I agree with some of your points, by the way I couldnt even be bothered booing because the game was so mind numbing and really not good for the health. Booing is never constructive and sends out a bad impression but it is clear that their are alot of people who are getting frustrated and its not just because of last nights game. A few people on here act like they personally own the Irish football team, we already have enough idiots working for the FAI
My prediction came true, though from the other way around - Ireland were the ones who went ahead and it was Bulgaria who battled to get the point & fair play to them for showing more will to win.
Where's our guile? Where's our desire? More importantly, where's the strategy to get the 3 points? How was this any better to the 89 minute defensive game we played against Israel all those moons ago when Kerr's conservative ways garnered scorn and an eventual sacking?
I don't mind bowing to a superior team so long as I felt we did our best. We didn't even do our worst, we just didn't look like wanting to play. Am I the only one who thinks we haven't played with any conviction since the era of McCarthy? I'm not so much angry as just flat disappointed.
Cannot understand people booing their own team.Fcuking mindless idiots. I thought the crowd were great for the most part, trying to get behind the team despite the frustration that went with the performance. Guy beside me was hollering abuse at Robbie Keane every time he got the ball. Why do these people go to the games?? Can you call yourself a supporter if you consistently abuse the team captain?
Le monde est a nous
Given - had 4 shots to save, and stopped them all. No chance with the OG
McShane - Poor in the first half, marginally better in the second. At best, he's third choice right full
Dunne - Sixth goal in Irish colours, and solid in central defence. Thought the ref got some of the decisions against him completely wrong
O'Shea - One poor tackle aside, solid enough. Despite the form of the full backs, I don't see this partnership being broken up anytime soon
Kilbane - You know what you're going to get with Kilbane. No lack of effort, but sometimes that's not enough. Links far better with Duff than Hiunt. Desperately unlucky with the OG.
McGeady - He's is never going to score for Ireland. Replay of his shot made it look better than from where I was sitting. Should have torn his opposing full back a new one. Can't decide if it's ability or the tactics that were against him
Andrews - Stepped up in the second half and actually started closing down players. Needs a better partner in central midfield
Whelan - Anonymous. Static. Had a great shot in the first half though
Hunt - It's been said enough times, he's far better as an impact sub.
Keane - Worked hard, but at 5"8, why was he expected to do with constant long balls?
Doyle - Worked harder than Keane, chased down defenders, but was feeding off scraps
Keogh - I can understand why he was brought on, but it should have been at least 15 minutes earlier
Having watched the game and the "we're better than this" comments, consider this. We've been away from home against "inferior" opposition that refused to give us space, let us play and completely shut down our playmakers - Liechtenstein, Macedonia (repeatedly), Austria, Poland. Consider again what we just did to Bulgaria. Welcome to the other side of the argument.
A few months ago, I made a comment that our players can't play several different tactical systems. We can't go from massed defence to free flowing attacking football in subsequent games. However, having spent an entire game shutting down Bulgaria, it's going to be easier to repeat the same tactics against Italy.
We may not agree with Trapattoni's tactics, but who here can honestly say that, if you knew we'd be unbeaten after 5 games, second in the group, 7 points clear of third and looking good for a play off, that you wouldn't want him appointed following 5 months of searching for a manager?
I was in the lower Cusack and you could hear it all right. Out of 10 I'd say it was a 3/4. Half hearted really but still not something you want to hear.
the points that I have made all along since Traps first game in qualifiers shone through again on saturday night. Mcgeady is not good enough, whelan is looking for a part in the remake of invisible man, he is not good enough and just sits back and does nothing. Hunt is at best an impact subandno where near the ability of duff, again saturday night showed how important duff is to us. im not so sure about kilbane being unlucky, watch it again and see how he opened his foot to tap/place it in rather than blast it out to the right, he clearly tried to place it, instead of hoofing it out to his right. I really dont know what he was at then.
biggest disappointment is the lack of intensity off the ball. We dont have the players to sit back and defend for a whole game. We need to have that "put em under pressure" tactic when we dont have the ball, because we cant match the technical ability of the continentals when holding the ball and spraying it about.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I reckon Trap did an audit of our capabilities at the start and thought we have good wide players, a couple of decent CBs and a couple of good forwards. The rest are makeweights.
He set up the team in a solid 4-4-2 to utilise this (hardly rocket science). However, once the wide players are injured (Duff out, McGeady clearly not fit) the whole plan is blown apart.
I was expecting subtle solutions to our problems, like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 but as he sees that our 2 best attacking players are wide players none of this has been possible. He has stubbornly insisted on the original plan and nothing else.
I'd love to see, at least as an alternative, a narrower team with creativity in the middle, with the width coming from our full backs. That'd require proper full backs playing full back.
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