yeah, there was no tempo or intensity whatsoever, on or off the ball. Lack of technique was badly exposed throughout. No fluency either.
couldn't agree more. i'm happy to watch catenaccio etc. as long as we get results, but sitting off teams doesn't work for us. if they could finish it would've been 3-1 to them. we didn't blockade them out, but invited them on to us, and they got in behind the back for two or three times at least.Originally Posted by paul_oshea
they had a keeper who couldn't kick and the few times we did pressure them they made basic errors. really disappointed we didn't press them more. as you say, we don't have the technical ability to pull off traps game plan against average/good sides, and then only barely scrape past the poor sides.
yeah, there was no tempo or intensity whatsoever, on or off the ball. Lack of technique was badly exposed throughout. No fluency either.
We are guilty of misplaced optimism based on Trapatonni's record at club level and a failure to see that the Emperor really is bo!lock naked. 3 wins out of 10.
Total failure to control any period of a game against a not very good Bulgaria side.
A revamp of midfield desperately needed if we have any chance of qualifying (we don't!). Andy Reid and Carlsley not even being considered is preposterous (especially as they are totally different players so one or the other should fit the managers inexplicable policies)
Trapatonni has not put in the effort required to go and see players and ENSURE that our squad potential is maximised.
We may get lucky against Italy, that is all we can hope for.
I was on a night train in North Africa at the time so have only just watched the match now.
I thought Robbie Keane, Given and Dunne did ok, but a wave of averageness swept through the whole team. 1-1 against the 2nd strongest team in the group is not a bad result under normal circumstances, and there were a few shocks for home teams that night (Belgium lost to an ever improving Bosnia, Morocco lost to Gabon, Romania lost to a good young Serbian team). But in the cold light of day Bulgaria were there to be dispatched, we may have had injury problems but they had almost all of their proven world class attacking players out (Berbatov, Bozhinov, Martin Petrov). We will be lucky to get a draw out in Sofia when we play them.
The way Trap sets the team out, it may well suit us more when we play away. We cant afford to lose there. If we get a draw there, then we should be favourite for second place.
It would make a world of difference to us if S Reid was fit and available for the game. It was expected to be out for upto 7 months when he got injured in Oct, cant seem to find any recent updates but heres hoping.
I agree with that. The thing is that in classical "catenaccio" teams (going on what I've heard, seeing as I wasn't born in the heady days of when these teams existed) the full backs were essential to the system. Whilst they sat back for most of the game and allowed pressure onto them, the full backs were used to break forward at pace to supplement the attack on the counter.
Considering that we almost always have the two centre backs and the two central midfielders behind the ball, this should allow at least one of the full backs to break forward. If we're to score more goals this is IMO essential. There are just too many players not willing/allowed to join the attack. We need to play better attacking full backs, and I'm sure that there are better ones out there than Kilbane and McShane. The fact that we also have very little pace really does make playing a catenaccio style of football very difficult. The annoying thing is though that there may be no other realistic solution.
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I'd go along with that team as well. I'd ask Keane to drop into midfield every time we didn't have the ball (so 80% of the match) and pray Italy have an off day. Bring on Hunt for Kilbane with twenty minutes to go and replace Doyle when he looks like he's going to throw up after all the pressing he'd need to do.
McShane and Kilbane are accidents waiting to happen once again if they are asked to play at RB and LB respectively. I had my hands over my eyes every time a defender ran at them in the penalty box - I was sure they'd give a penalty away with 15 minutes to go.
I'm only at page 16 or 17 at the moment so someone might have responded to this already, but i think we need to stop referring to both Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland as players that we are "missing".
For different reasons its highly unlikely either will appear in this qualifying campaign, certainly not in the return match in Sofia in June. Therefore its totally irrelevant that they were not on the pitch on saturday. No point talking theoritically about how strong we could be, better off sorting out how strong we are with the players available.
I'll agree that it IS a big deal to be missing Finnan and Duff.
So we weren't missing Steven Reid, but Bulgaria were missing Martin Petrov?
It would, of course, take a mad man not to agree that centre mid is our major problem.
However, there have been a few people on here remarking about how Petrov ran the midfield and gave the lads a lesson in midfield play.
Even leaving aside any Celtic-bias, isn't this what we'd expect? Petrov is a class midfielder, whereas i'm not sure even Keith or Glenn would claim to be so?! Petrov dominated the midfield?... well so he should. If the lads had been able to shut him down then it would have been a top effort. They didn't- i'm not suprised.
Yep fair enough on that count of course, i'm not having a specific pop at you Jicked, don't get your knickers in a twist.
I don't know how long M.Petrov is out for- but someone has remarked that he may be back for the June match? If so then his absence is of far more relevance to Bulgaira than Steven Reid's to us. Reid is crocked and has been for ages. We talk about how much we need him and how much difference he'd make - i agree in principle, but do we even know? He's not had a run in the internation team since WC 2002, and that wasn't even much of a run.
So i'd love to see him back in the fold, but for now he might aswell not exist as far as i'm concerned, because he has virtually no relevance to this qualifying campaign.
There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.
Andy O'Brien and Stephen Ireland have said THEY do not want to play. Others ARE injured.
It is preposterous that Andy Reid and Lee Carsley are missing because Trappa CHOOSES not to include them. I would have both on the pitch before the 4 midfielders currently available, and I believe a min. 90% of supporters (and all RTE pundits!) would agree.
Trappa is exhibiting characteristics of a stubborn old goat. He's no better than Stan with a a bit of organisational and defensive acumen.
I still think we need to have more shots from distance. I can remember the good old days when the likes of Kavanagh, Hartey, Kennedy, Holland and even Kinsella having a dig from distance.
Even going way back we had the likes of Sheridan, Irwin and Houghton who could lash in raspers from some distance. In the squad now with the likes of Whelan, Kilbane and even Robbie Keane (remember his goal in summer 2004 vs the Dutch in Amsterdam?) we have the ability to put the keeper under pressure. If we are 1-0 up at home or say 0-0 away I think we should adopt shooting from range a lot more.
I just get so frustrated with the poxy build up play were we seem to incessantly flick the ball about between full backs and wingers and never really get any momentum behind us. We need to learn to mix it up in terms of style and play to our strengths. We don't have players with a plethora of world class skill, but we do have a solid defensive spine (Given, Dunne, Andrews or Whelan), a degree of pace on the flanks (Duff, McGeady, Stephen Hunt) and the ability to hurt teams with Doyle and Keane.
I think what we are really missing is a dominant vocal midfielder. Andy Townsend gets a lot of grief on this forum, but that is exactly the sort of player we need now. A cool head, but a born leader, a player who could drive the team forward and had the ability to really make an impression on the park.
Looking back at those 1990-1994 squads it was some talent we had there. The likes of Houghton, Townsend, Aldridge, McGrath, Sheridan, Whelan (Ronnie), Quinn, Irwin... It's difficult not to pine for those days. I still say my biggest regret in life was not going to 1994 World Cup. I'd saved up all my money for 5 years and had just about enough for flights, accomadation and transport, but the poxy airlines wouldn't let me fly as an unaccompanied minor!
So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference. The real problems are at full back to be honest.
As for the Panel, they have slated every manager since Johnny Giles. The same muppets who wanted to hire Paul Jewell (sacked this year by Derby as the team headed towards the oblivion of the 1st division). Like I would listen to them!!
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Dreadful dreadful Irish performance. We have never played so bad and not lost. Maybe Trap is a lucky manager.
No..............they are 'missing' because they are not good enough.
Suggesting that any of those should be playing is indeed a ridiculous statement.
Ward, McCann, Stephen Quinn, and Kennedy are all playing at the same level as Carsley (upper Championship). Garvan, Quinn and McCann have all scored more than Carsley. Garvan stood out in midfield for the U-21's VS Spain on Friday, kept possession well, smart passes and wasn't afraid to have a shot himself.
Where did I say they should be playing?
Carsley is no longer good enough, in my opinion. Garvan, whilst undoubtedly promising, has been judged by Trapattoni not to be ready at this stage. I accept that decision. One thing I will add about players' performances for the U-21's is that they should be taken with a pinch of salt. I've lost count of the amount of players who have looked good at U-21 level only to disappoint at senior level. I'm not saying that this applies to Garvan in particular but more as a rule in general.
The players listed above, just highlight for me the current predicament with the Irish side in regards to squad depth which puts Trapattoni's reign so far in a very favourable light.
Last edited by The Fly; 30/03/2009 at 5:39 PM.
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