QuoteNo argument there.Originally Posted by Maribor
All thats needed now is for him to come out and say that fans "wouldn't know if a ball was blown up or stuffed". Well thats what our manager would say anyhow
No argument there.
Really? Who is that?
Anyway, i'm bitter for sure, 20 odd years supporting this league will do that to a man, it's since been exacerbated by the FAI in the last 2 years.
Now, fact is Fenlon is the best manager in the league by a mile, yet his best with Derry was woeful. His best with Shels and Bohs reaped 4 league titles and an FAI cup so far so to me that says more about Derry than Pat Fenlon.
Derry fans want to talk about Chequebook manager and that but it's here where the bitterness is in my opinion. Derry are bitter that the best manger in the league still couldn't win them a title and they're bitter they hadn't the resources to give him either. Basically, Derry are bitter because they are and will always be bottlers.
They always cheat, they always lie
**** Delaney and the FAI
Its hard to win a League in 3 months.
Shels or Bohs didn't have the resources either, but that didn't stop Pat spending it. We're happy our board don't take a kamikaze approach.
Basically, you're a bitter little Shels fan whose frustrated after a few years out of the big league, who we obviously did something right to by getting under your skin.
We might not have won the battle, but at least we didn't lose the war.
For anyone who thinks Fenlon is a good manager, have a look at his record of bringing youth players through, wherever he's been. That should end the discussion.
That's cause no one wants to interview the manager of a mid-table teamAgreed, but he is not sputtering out poison in every interview so far this season. The PD is, hence this thread
Well i wouldn't say little but i am a bitter Shels fan, i admitted that no more than 2 hours ago. Are you just going to repeat stuff?
No, i'm not. We're were we are because of how we did things and that i accept. It's other things that frustrate me.whose frustrated after a few years out of the big league
Derry City got under my skin when essentially when they joined the LoI. As far as i'm concerned, you shouldn't be here but thats a discussion for a different day.who we obviously did something right to by getting under your skin.
So you are saying that he's not a good manager because he doesn't bring youth throught the ranks? That no matter what he wins, he'll never be a good manager because he hasn't gave young lads a shot? You're saying that, bringing on young talent is the only trait of a good manager?For anyone who thinks Fenlon is a good manager, have a look at his record of bringing youth players through, wherever he's been. That should end the discussion.
Last edited by Hairy Bowsie; 17/03/2009 at 4:55 PM.
They always cheat, they always lie
**** Delaney and the FAI
I would say that too.
And that is why he will only ever be a cheque book manager.
So if you think Bohs are big read this. http://www.astronomy.ie/perpespective.html
Give it a rest ffs.
Who in the league isn't a chequebook manager so?
Mathews, Doolin and McDonnell all had bigger chequebooks last year. Does that just mean they're bad chequebook managers? Is Alex Ferguson a chequebook manager?
Sean Connor had the same chequebook, what's he?
What's Stephen Kenny? According to Alan Mathews(I know) his chequebook wasnt that much smaller than Bohs last year. But ignoring that. When was he most successful? At Bohs, with Id imagne a relatively similar chequebook.
Yeah he's done grand with the 'pennies' he's had at Derry but can't win the league...will we just label him as unsuccessful then?
The only manager that couldnt be called a chequebook manager at the time the league was won(recently) is Rico, and while I rate him and think he plays lovely football we had players like Doyle, Roy o donovan, Fenn, Flynny, Bennett, George, Gamble, Kearney all on small money cos they came home from ENgland disillusioned around the same time. Pure luck that that group happened to fall together.
EVERY manager is a chequebook manager. They will spend as much as they can. They question is are they good at it? Are they successful? Since when is signing players not one of the most important attributes of a manager?
Fact is as much as he is a tiny little ***** Pat Fenlon is incredibly successful. I can't stand the man, but to claim that he isn't a good manager in this league is simply spiteful and biased.
People seem to be viewing success as directly equating to being the best.
Here's why it's a fallacy.
Put the current Barca, Man U or any similar team in the LoI and they'd walk it. In fact, I could manage them and they'd still win. Would that make me the best manager? Clearly not.
Management, whether it be sport or otherwise, is about maximizing the output from the resources you have.
Fenlon couldn't afford the best players at Derry so he had buy wisely. He didn't. He bought a long list of absolute puddings. Journeymen who are still journeymen, has-beens that stayed has-beens and up and comers who never went anywhere.
His failure to develop youth throughout his management career illustrates that he doesn't maximize individuals talent, ergo he can't be considered a good manager.
It's also the reason why he burns through money at an amazing rate. He can't develop talent therefore he had to keep dipping into the transfer market to buy the top players developed by other GOOD managers.
Until Fenlon starts achieves Without a mega wage bill he'll rightly be viewed as a purchaser rather than a manager.
Pat fenlon is a quality manager but to be honest he did'nt really have to start at the bottom like other managers. He inherited a very good squad at shels and had a very open cheque book to sign more or less who he liked. A 1st time managers dream. At bohs the cheque book prob is'nt as open in fairness but there was a good side there already when he arrived.
As good as he is without a decent budget which he's always had i very much doubt he would have to been able to do the job kenny done when he 1st arrived at derry or the job keely has done by rebuilding us and almost getting us up on very small budget.
So why didnt Doolin, McDonnell or Mathews win it? Why didnt ye come closer than 20odd points behind? Because theres no way in hell ye spent that much less, comparatively?
To claim developing youth is the only way to be a good manager is ridiculous. How many Derry players atm came through their youth system(how many have been youths while Kenny was manager?) and how many did Kenny buy in? Buying other people's youths just means you've an eye for talent, it doesnt mean you're the one developing it. Kenny prefers spotting younger talent e.g. McGinn, but he's still just buying/taking what other people have developed.
If developing talent is the only thing that matters then Pete Mahon is the best manager in the league, however most would accept that while its a good talent its far from the only important thing.
Being able to spot a player that will improve your team and put together a team that can dominate(like Shels) is a talent. Being able to take an underachieving team, whip them into shape and make them close to unbeatable is a talent. Being able to get that same team to keep focus and play football weeks after the league is over(when they hammered us 3-0) is a talent.
Fenlon has many managerial talent, not perfect by any means, but to simply label him a a 'chequebook manager' is ridiculous. That implies the person with the most money winning, which has been repeatedly stated is not the case.
Last edited by micls; 17/03/2009 at 8:02 PM.
Last 4 posts here are actually some of the best I've read on foot.ie. Quality stuff.
No one said that- there is also buying young players to make the breakthorough.
how appropriate that the film version of This Damn United is being released now. We have our own Irish version... This Damned City?
A successful manager takes over a quality team and only lasts a short time... Is there any truth that Fenlon chopped up Kenny's desk in the Brandywell offices? While Derry could not be compared to Leeds, neither can Pat Fenlon be compared to Brian Clough but reading the book, the comparisons are scary
The claim wasSaying someone can't be considered a good manager if they dont develop youth is basically the same as saying that youth is the most important thing.His failure to develop youth throughout his management career illustrates that he doesn't maximize individuals talent, ergo he can't be considered a good manager.
Whats the difference between buying young talent and buying older lads? On one hand you get youth and a better chance of selling them on(plus their probably cheaper), on the other you get experience, but their both basically the same thing, buying someone who someone else has brought through and nurtured.
Personally Id prefer a manager who bought youth simply because its probably better value but give me the choice of buying older fellas and winning the league and I dont think many would have to think too hard about it
Fenlon is so much more than a chequebook manager. The vastly improved performance from players in his first year in charge at Bohs clearly demonstrates that. He got absolute class from people who had been rated as mediocrities under his predecessor.
His huge determination and his will to win is matched by near-obsessive attention to detail and, yes, a ruthless streak. I'd much rather have him on my side.
I can understand his resentment at the consistently faint praise emanating from MNS and his hostility towards some of the bitter big-mouths there, and if it motivates him and his players so much the better.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks