2009 attendances

[John83]

During the summer period,Possible proof we should go back to winter?

It was the same during the winter season. There's less to play for in the middle third. The good teams are generally near the top, the bad ones near the bottom. No 'important' games - the title, or Europe or relegation aren't yet imminent. You've already played everyone once. Boredom. Maybe it's an argument for a 20 team division, but it's not an argument for winter soccer.

[John83]

Good,because i dont want winter football (yet)
But seriously, a 20 team Loi? you've got to be kiddin me

I didn't say it was a good argument, just an argument.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Good,because i dont want winter football (yet)
But seriously, a 20 team Loi? you've got to be kiddin me

Whats wrong with a 20 team league. It would provide much needed revenue for the lower clubs when the big clubs come to town. There may be a gulf in class but i don't think a 20 team league should openly be dissmissed. Afterall we are only a small country with a limited number of senior teams but the Shels, Waterfords, Fingals (you know the minnows) could really do with big clubs coming to their grounds every once in a while

oh sorry for going off topic

[pete]

This would give an average attendance of 2,900

So numbers up around 50%. FAI must be doing a great job.

[superfrank]

It's a unique occasion with a higher than normal attendance.

Agreed. Our unique occasion was that we were playing Rovers. They brought about 2k on Friday. Our next home game against Galway will have a much smaller crowd.

[gspain]

I did a quick count and there was 100 in the block I was in alone, and 40 in the outside right block. Didn't see the Limerick side fully, but if you reckon youz had half the crowd, that puts the crowd at 300. So someone Shannon-side is telling porkies.

Also baffled how Limerick can claim half the crowd.

There was about 50 in our block from the end of the pressbox down.

I thought there was at most 70 in front of the pressbox and to the side of it. I didn't count them. I was not in the best position to see/count the home support so I may well have been wrong. Also I didn't think about what the crowd was overall until afterwards but I did think on the night we had about 50 fans although maybe I'm claiming a few on our side not in colours whom I also don't know.

[pineapple stu]

You had about 50 fans alright. But the crowd was about 220 in total. Didn't get an official figure as our CPO wasn't in attendance on Friday.

[Black and White]

In order to boost attendances and revenue the league should resort to the same layout as the Scotish Premier League, the split after so many games, would make the middle of the table teams be more competitive towards the end of the season.

[pineapple stu]

It would mean the mid-table teams would have nothing to play for as they either can't drop any lower and get sucked into a relegation dogfight or they can't go any higher and get an outside chance for Europe. With a ten team league, cutting off sixth with five games to go could easily have those effects. Attendances would then drop rather than rise. In addition, the bottom teams would all get one half-round of poor attendances with none of the big teams to play (assuming the bigger clubs end top half). The split also gives rise to playing teams at home three times and away once, or vice versa. It's silly, tbh.

There is no quick fix to attendances.

[ashbournebohs]

I actually think the attendances will hold up for the first quarter of the league at least.We have lost two clubs with poor attendances ucd and cobh and replaced them with Dundalk who historically have had good crowds.Rovers will probably have 3500 at every home game and if the had a stand on the far side you could be looking at 5000 plus for the visits of Bohs and Pats.I would expect at least 1500 to travel to dalymount in 2 weeks giving us a 4000 plus crowd.If Rovers Cork Derry and Dundalk can stay near the top and in the cups the crowds this season could be very good indeed as Bohs excepted it is good value at 12 to 15 euro in the current climate

[thischarmingman]

The split also gives rise to playing teams at home three times and away once, or vice versa. It's silly, tbh.

Yeah, imagine playing each other home and away an unequal amount of times.

[pineapple stu]

Indeed! Though a 3-1 split is sillier than a 2-1 split obviously.

Will wait until after this weekend's games to post the first update, once everyon'e played a game. Then the fun begins as people moan that I haven't taken their guess.

[pineapple stu]

The average Premier Division attendance will probably be up. But that's irrelevant as (a) the Premier Division isn't a club, so all ten Premier teams could show decreases in attendances and yet the division average could increase and (b) there's more than the Premier Division.

[Steve Bruce]

Indeed! Though a 3-1 split is sillier than a 2-1 split obviously.

Will wait until after this weekend's games to post the first update, once everyon'e played a game. Then the fun begins as people moan that I haven't taken their guess.

How do you work that out?

For instance, Linfield will play Glentoran twice at Home and once away before the split. After the split we will play them away because we had an extra home match before the split.

And this is how it has been worked out for every team.

I'm not trying to be a WUM or anything, because I am genuinely confused as to how one team could have 3 home games and 1 away in the case of a split.

[pineapple stu]

Check out some historic tables; it works.

Hypothetically, say team A - let's call them UCD - finish fifth in a league of ten teams which has a top half bottom half split. We played every team in the top half twice at home and once away, and every team in the bottom half once at home and twice away. The only options open are (a) for us to play our last four games away from home to keep a 2-2 balance or (b) to have a 3-1 or 1-3 split against some teams.

The likes of Celtic v Rangers and (presumably) Linfield v Glentoran are possibly kept as 2-2 as they're big title-deciding games and there's be uproar from one or other if it went 3-1, but you can check previous SPL fixtures (soccerbot's cross table is good for a start) and you'll see plenty of 3-1s. Obviously my example is extreme, but the principle exists.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Attendances should be up this season because there are no more small town teams like Harps and Cobh and Ucd are gone now aswell.
Plus its a 10 team league now which means every 2nd home game you're playing a big team that will bring many fans along with them .
Also for those of you who think it'll be down coz of repitition grow up will ye it shouldnt matter who you are playing you're there to see your team.
Playing the big clubs more often is a good thing not a bad thing.
Yes i agree our crowd will be down v Galway,but then the next home game is v Pats which will be a good crowd when we're playing Rovers,Bohs,Pats,Cork,Drogheda,Derry and Dundalk there will be at least 1.5k there which is good but then when we're playin Sligo and Galway it wont be as good.

CT my opinion on attendences is how the team performs. If your team is doing poorly then attendences will drop because supporters don't want to see their team get rolled over. Last weekends attendence where due to the first game of the season and all that. Over the next month attendences will pan out to a normal factor. after that attendences will dip again because supporters will go on holidays intermittently over the course of the summer. Then when the dark evenings come into play the crowds will increase due to the games being of atmosphere and certain teams will have something to play for.

[Dodge]

so all ten Premier teams could show decreases in attendances and yet the division average could increase

What?!? Are you talking about individual games or club averages? if its averages...

I ain't no Carol Vorderman but I think its impossible for the 10 clubs to have decreasing averages and then have the overall average increase

[pineapple stu]

It is (doing great maths explaining today!).

Take 10 teams with averages of 1500, and 2 teams with averages of 500. Overall average - 1333. Those bottom two teams get relegated, so we now have 10 teams, all of whom suffer a drop to 1400. New average - 1400. Premier Division crowd is up although every team has had a decline. So saying the Premier Division crowd will probably increase is irrelevant, as was the point CT was kind of making (noting crowds will be up because us and Cobh are gone).

QED.

[Dodge]

Oh, so we're still talking about going from 12 to 10? I don't see celtictiger's posts...

using your example, I was thinking that if clubs went from 1,500 to 1,400 the average would still be 1,400...

[pineapple stu]

Going from 12 to 10 teams highlights it, but it could also happen if a team with a really small crowd this year got replaced by one with a really big crowd next year, and then they all went down. So for example, 9 teams with 2000 and 1 with 500 - average 1850. Next year, 10 teams with 1900 - average 1900.

But yeah, see where your confusion came from.