Liverpool

[old git]

Keep your nickers on and grow up. I was using Keane as an example nothing more and as you can see by the replies of the Man U fans on a "Liverpool thread" that they to could see i was only using Keane as an example NOTHING MORE.

calm down rafa .. just trying to make a point is it an obession with utd that liverpool fans have to keep going on about them .. and by the way it is spelt knickers

[Closed Account 2]

Nobody disputes Torres is world class Reder it's just that the majority of us don't see enough quality in the rest of the side to mount another title challenge.

That's true but on the other hand there is a real lack of quality in the other top Premier League teams. Man Utd are looking a lot thinner than in previous seasons, they don't have a huge amount of creativity in midfield. Nani, Anderson and Valenica are no where near world class. Giggs is their only decent creative midfielder (Stoke match showed this) but you fear for them relying on him for all of the season. Scholes, Park or Hargreaves (if he plays again) could do a creative job for them but this isnt their primary role. It's the same with Carrick and Fletcher, decent midfielders but not really creative. I just dont see them being able to unlock resolute defences the way they did last season. Rooney can create chances on his own, but the other strikers like Berbatov and Owen are reliant on service and I just wonder if there will be enough quality service for them this season. The keeper is also a major problem for them, Van Der Saar is injured and also looked past it towards the end of last season, in truth he's looked dodgy for a year or so. The Russians tore him to ribbons in Euro 2008, Foster doesnt look like a world beater either. With Vidic in front of the keeper Man Utd wont leak that many goals, but neither a past-it Van Der Saar, nor a not-quite-there Foster will be able to dig the points out for them like say Schmeicel or Given or even Friedel.

Liverpool probably have the strongest attack if they have no injuries. Torres is world class and when he's on his game it's impossible to stop him. Gerrard is a very good player playing just off him. I just think that Alonso would have been the missing piece in the jigsaw had he stayed. His presence allowed Gerrard to get forward more (and sometimes they would swap and Alonso would be the attacking force - which meant the oppsition would struggle to adapt their marking system). I also have my doubts about their defence if injuries occur particularly in central areas.

Chelsea are probably the strongest squad in the league, looking at their team there is a very strong spine (Cech, Terry, Essien, Lampard, Drogba) and there are decent back-ups in most of those positions (like Alex, Ballack, Anelka), Essien is the real engine of the team and without him I can see the wheels coming off, even for the short amount of time like the month of the African Nations Cup. If Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire get far in that competition then Essien, Kalou and Drogba will all be out of the picture which could mean dropped points over that time frame.

Arsenal have quality upfront, Arshavin is world class and I think will be the most impressive player in the league this season, Van Persie is a decent player and if Eduardo can get a string of games together he will be very good. But if you scratch the surface with Arsenal you can see there isn't too much strength in depth. Bendtner is not really good enough, Ramsey, Vela, Wallcott and Wilshere are good but lack experience (and Wenger seems to prefer the lumbering Dane to them anyway), it's the same story in defence, they just dont quite have the strength in depth. They should make the second round of the CL and all those games could expose a paper thin squad. Unless Wenger digs into his pockets they might well just be overstretched again this season.

In my opinion Man City have a superb chance of winning it this season. They have quality all over the pitch. Given is a superb keeper easily the best in the league. Toure and Lescott are strong defenders (they still need time to organise and gel), De Jong is a fantastic athlete, and upfront they have an overwhelming array of talent. Tevez, Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Bellamy are all very good players who can hurt teams. They also have a good mix of target men (like Adebayor even Santa Cruz at a push) and support strikers (Tevez and Bellamy) who have enough pace to cause problems. There is pace all over the team with players like Wright-Phillips, Petrov and also Kompany in reserve. If they can survive the African Cup of Nations (should be possible as Togo [Adebayor] will go out early if they qualify) and they have enough cover in other areas, they could win the league. They also have the advantage of no European matches so their squad will not be stretched too much. If they can keep putting teams away at home (like West Ham tonight) then I think they will win it.

[old git]

That's true but on the other hand there is a real lack of quality in the other top Premier League teams. Man Utd are looking a lot thinner than in previous seasons, they don't have a huge amount of creativity in midfield. Nani, Anderson and Valenica are no where near world class. Giggs is their only decent creative midfielder (Stoke match showed this) but you fear for them relying on him for all of the season. Scholes, Park or Hargreaves (if he plays again) could do a creative job for them but this isnt their primary role. It's the same with Carrick and Fletcher, decent midfielders but not really creative. I just dont see them being able to unlock resolute defences the way they did last season. Rooney can create chances on his own, but the other strikers like Berbatov and Owen are reliant on service and I just wonder if there will be enough quality service for them this season. The keeper is also a major problem for them, Van Der Saar is injured and also looked past it towards the end of last season, in truth he's looked dodgy for a year or so. The Russians tore him to ribbons in Euro 2008, Foster doesnt look like a world beater either. With Vidic in front of the keeper Man Utd wont leak that many goals, but neither a past-it Van Der Saar, nor a not-quite-there Foster will be able to dig the points out for them like say Schmeicel or Given or even Friedel.

Liverpool probably have the strongest attack if they have no injuries. Torres is world class and when he's on his game it's impossible to stop him. Gerrard is a very good player playing just off him. I just think that Alonso would have been the missing piece in the jigsaw had he stayed. His presence allowed Gerrard to get forward more (and sometimes they would swap and Alonso would be the attacking force - which meant the oppsition would struggle to adapt their marking system). I also have my doubts about their defence if injuries occur particularly in central areas.

Chelsea are probably the strongest squad in the league, looking at their team there is a very strong spine (Cech, Terry, Essien, Lampard, Drogba) and there are decent back-ups in most of those positions (like Alex, Ballack, Anelka), Essien is the real engine of the team and without him I can see the wheels coming off, even for the short amount of time like the month of the African Nations Cup. If Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire get far in that competition then Essien, Kalou and Drogba will all be out of the picture which could mean dropped points over that time frame.

Arsenal have quality upfront, Arshavin is world class and I think will be the most impressive player in the league this season, Van Persie is a decent player and if Eduardo can get a string of games together he will be very good. But if you scratch the surface with Arsenal you can see there isn't too much strength in depth. Bendtner is not really good enough, Ramsey, Vela, Wallcott and Wilshere are good but lack experience (and Wenger seems to prefer the lumbering Dane to them anyway), it's the same story in defence, they just dont quite have the strength in depth. They should make the second round of the CL and all those games could expose a paper thin squad. Unless Wenger digs into his pockets they might well just be overstretched again this season.

In my opinion Man City have a superb chance of winning it this season. They have quality all over the pitch. Given is a superb keeper easily the best in the league. Toure and Lescott are strong defenders (they still need time to organise and gel), De Jong is a fantastic athlete, and upfront they have an overwhelming array of talent. Tevez, Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Bellamy are all very good players who can hurt teams. They also have a good mix of target men (like Adebayor even Santa Cruz at a push) and support strikers (Tevez and Bellamy) who have enough pace to cause problems. There is pace all over the team with players like Wright-Phillips, Petrov and also Kompany in reserve. If they can survive the African Cup of Nations (should be possible as Togo [Adebayor] will go out early if they qualify) and they have enough cover in other areas, they could win the league. They also have the advantage of no European matches so their squad will not be stretched too much. If they can keep putting teams away at home (like West Ham tonight) then I think they will win it.

good post ... but i still think league between chelsea or utd... liverpool wont be far off if they can keep everybody fit (torres ) and i agree alonso may well have been the missing piece of jigsaw.. if torres was playing for either chelsea or utd they would walk away with league.. man city the jury still out alot of new players may take time to gel plus i now think a lot of the so called weaker teams will try a little bit harder to beat them so every game could be like a cup final for them . arsenal once again will impress us with their great football but as you said lack of depth in squad will cost them over the season..

[KK77]

calm down rafa .. just trying to make a point is it an obession with utd that liverpool fans have to keep going on about them .. and by the way it is spelt knickers

You come on to a football forum and pull someone up over a spelling mistake...sad. This is not the the dead poets society. Seems i was right about growing up.

[old git]

You come on to a football forum and pull someone up over a spelling mistake...sad. This is not the the dead poets society. Seems i was right about growing up.

notice the smile after my post i was only joking .. must be touchy after tonights performance p.s. only joking again

[KK77]

notice the smile after my post i was only joking .. must be touchy after tonights performance p.s. only joking again

Terrible first half improved second half but that wasn't hard. Heading over on Sunday i hope for an improvement!

[DeLorean]

Liverpool definitely got the toughest group out of the English sides, by a distance. Fiorentina looked a very useful side and I got the feeling there were more goals there for them, if they weren't content with what they had. The back-to-back fixtures are vital now. If Fiorentina take 6pts from Debrecen then Liverpool will want to, at least, break even with Lyon. Would have to fancy Pool at home to Fiorentina on the last night, at Anfield, if they need to win though, that's their speciality.

[old git]

Terrible first half improved second half but that wasn't hard. Heading over on Sunday i hope for an improvement!

yeah will agree with you on last nights performance ... would definatly expect a massive improvement at the weekend and would even fancy liverpool to get the 3 points

[shakermaker1982]

Good post edmundo and I agree the League title is wide open this season but I still think United will edge it. They've got out of the starting blocks early for the first time in years and will keep on improving. Scholes and Giggs can still do the business against the less glamorous sides and if Fergie makes sure his team perform better against the top 4 this time round then I think Fergie will bag another title. I think Fergie is expecting a lot more from Nani and Valencia this season and they have been disappointing so far but it's still early days yet. Chelsea are a danger but like you say the African Nations will disrupt them. I know they have some easy games during the month of January but a lot of players from Chelsea and Arsenal struggled to hit top form again when they returned to their clubs after the last African Nation competition and I can see that happening again.

I was expecting big things from Arsenal this season but still think they are one or two players away from a title challenge. They still seem to struggle against sides which get stuck in, particuarly away from home. Liverpool can grind out results but Alonso is a loss and the purchase of Johnson has weakened them defensively IMO. He adds a new attacking dimension but teams will be able to counter them once they see large holes at RB. Fiorentina did an excellent job of containing Liverpool last night. The two centre backs kept Torres fairly quiet and they made sure he had little supply to work with.

[DeLorean]

yeah will agree with you on last nights performance ... would definatly expect a massive improvement at the weekend and would even fancy liverpool to get the 3 points

I don't think so. If Liverpool get a draw at the wkd I think it would be a decent result for them. I can see them being completely dominated in the midfield battle with Torres feeding off scraps, granted no better man to be feeding off scraps.

[papa-j]

All this Alonso = missing link stuff needs to be qualified properly. In my opinion its a little misguided - he was at Anfield for 5 years and never got the credit he deserved. Suddenly when he moves on he become the missing link that would win Liverpool the title

He was a fantastic player for Liverpool but very underrated as he played deep and did not score too many. He is certainly missed as the Liverpool style of play was built around this ability as a "pivot man" but that style has changed this year.

On one hand Liverpool are missing his presence against the better sides who attack, as his retention of the ball was top class.He kept the passages of play moving and as well as taking pressure off the defence he could find the space behind the oppositions defence by pulling tham left and right thUS making the space for Torres/Gerrard to exploit.

On the flip side Liverpool struggled against the "park the bus" sides as they sat deep. This allowed Liverpool posession but they could not penetrate with Alonso sitting so deep and the fact he never burst beyond defences from midfield.

Now I can see why people say Liverpool miss him as they done extremely well in the top four mini league clashes but remember their issues and draws against the"lesser" sides at Anfield. That trend has already been reversed with convincing wins over Stoke and Hull( draws last year) but the jury is out with the losses against Spurs and Villa.

Chelsea will be a defining moment but not in regards to Alonsos presence as he is long gone but weather the players can implement the new style of play properly and improve their retention of the ball.

Aqualani will be key to that style once fit but I am annoyed that he will have missed 3 crucial months of the season. Liverpool will loose more games than last year but will also turn a lot of those draws into wins. It will be interesting to see how that reflects in terms of points total.

Dont write them off just yet

[KK77]

All this Alonso = missing link stuff needs to be qualified properly. In my opinion its a little misguided - he was at Anfield for 5 years and never got the credit he deserved. Suddenly when he moves on he become the missing link that would win Liverpool the title

He was a fantastic player for Liverpool but very underrated as he played deep and did not score too many. He is certainly missed as the Liverpool style of play was built around this ability as a "pivot man" but that style has changed this year.

On one hand Liverpool are missing his presence against the better sides who attack, as his retention of the ball was top class.He kept the passages of play moving and as well as taking pressure off the defence he could find the space behind the oppositions defence by pulling tham left and right thUS making the space for Torres/Gerrard to exploit.

On the flip side Liverpool struggled against the "park the bus" sides as they sat deep. This allowed Liverpool posession but they could not penetrate with Alonso sitting so deep and the fact he never burst beyond defences from midfield.

Now I can see why people say Liverpool miss him as they done extremely well in the top four mini league clashes but remember their issues and draws against the"lesser" sides at Anfield. That trend has already been reversed with convincing wins over Stoke and Hull( draws last year) but the jury is out with the losses against Spurs and Villa.

Chelsea will be a defining moment but not in regards to Alonsos presence as he is long gone but weather the players can implement the new style of play properly and improve their retention of the ball.

Aqualani will be key to that style once fit but I am annoyed that he will have missed 3 crucial months of the season. Liverpool will loose more games than last year but will also turn a lot of those draws into wins. It will be interesting to see how that reflects in terms of points total.

Dont write them off just yet

Very good post mate have to say. Was at loads of draws last season when Alonso played and also games we won 1-0 but struggled in. Great player don't get me wrong but not the best player the club ever had as is being made out. I think it's just people being lazy myself starts up in the media and then it's everyones opinion. Don't remember many praising him as much when he was at Liverpool. Certainly do miss him who wouldn't but at the same time it's way over the top this missing link carry on.

[Roadend]

He's only the missing link when you have Lucas, sideways passer extrordanaire, to fill the gap. I'm not jumping on the Lucas is sh*t bandwagon, but just saying his range of passing is nowhere near what Alonso's is. Aquillani should improve this aspect of play when he returns.

[DeLorean]

I always rated Alonso. Having said that I don't think he's the missing link, as I don't think they'd have won the title if he was there either. I'm not trying to be smart when I say that by the way. The biggest thing at the moment, as has been said, is that it is Lucas is his replacement. He just doesn't look anywhere near good enough, certainly so far. I feel Liverpool will struggle to match their points total for last season, so unless United and Chelsea amount lesser tallys than previous years, I think they'll find it difficult to even be in the shake up. It will be interesting to see what Aquilani can offer them, and whether or not he can stay fit. I believe he's missed 60% of Roma's matches the last few seasons?

[papa-j]

I always rated Alonso. Having said that I don't think he's the missing link, as I don't think they'd have won the title if he was there either. I'm not trying to be smart when I say that by the way. The biggest thing at the moment, as has been said, is that it is Lucas is his replacement. He just doesn't look anywhere near good enough, certainly so far. I feel Liverpool will struggle to match their points total for last season, so unless United and Chelsea amount lesser tallys than previous years, I think they'll find it difficult to even be in the shake up. It will be interesting to see what Aquilani can offer them, and whether or not he can stay fit. I believe he's missed 60% of Roma's matches the last few seasons?

The thing is that Lucas is not his direct replacement and neither is Aqualani. The system has changed fundamentally so players have new roles,to the point where Mascherano is redundant against the Hulls and Stokes and wont play those games. Lucas is not Alonso and still needs to improve but he is not as bad a people make out - watch the games closely, he is improving all the time. I think the points total for all teams will be much lower this year. Chelsea are good but they have not added any players from last year except a new manager and once the honeymoon period is over I can see a similar pattern to last year. They are beatable - Wigan( lucky v Hull) UTD are beatable - Burnley and Liverpool are beatable - its wide open.

[Closed Account 2]

I think the system Liverpool used last season was pretty much spot on. With Torres and Gerrard upfront (the latter in a withdrawn role) and Alonso sitting in the middle, with Mascherano as a defensive midfielder. Players like Kuyt, Riera, Babel and Benayoun gave good wide options. Kuyt and Benayoun could be played when subtle build up was needed, and Babel and Riera when pace was needed. I think without Alonso the whole engine or regulator, of that system has gone. Aquliani might be able to do the Alonso job but he'll need time to fit into the system and with him still months off starting it doesnt bode well for their midfield.

Had Liverpool kept Alonso (and others like Arbeloa) and invested in a good central defender they would have been in a better position to go for the league. As it is they lost Hyppia (fair enough given his age), Arbeloa and Alonso all of whom were key players in the squad. Now they have brought Johnson, who as a full back can fill that void, but had to rush in and buy Kyrgiakos and have a long term injured player to replace Alonso. And Aquilani has to play a complex role, in a system very different to that used by Roma.

[shakermaker1982]

Keep Torres quiet and Liverpool look toothless.

Didier Drogba......God knows what he'd do if he ever suffers a real injury on the football pitch. I lost count how many times he went down 'injured' looking for a bit of love off the physio.

[apo11o]

Torres looked a little scared yesterday, I don t think he has the bottle to mix it with the big boys.

[reder]

Torres looked a little scared yesterday, I don t think he has the bottle to mix it with the big boys.

I dont really agree with that.

Anyway, had tickets for yesterday but didnt go in the end. Ended up at the Fulham game with the gf and some mates which was very entertaining and I felt sorry for Fulham at the end.

I have only seen the extended highlights of the game from yesterday and I thought it was very even overall. There isnt a whole lot between the 2 sides in truth. Torres, who is a dirty player now according to the Chelsea fans I know, didnt really get into it yesterday and missed a chance towards the end that he would normally put away.

I did speak to 2 Liverpool fans in Victoria who were at the game and they were very unhappy about the team and the performances as of late. They were giving out loads about Rafa and the fact that he was arguing with the 4th official instead of focusing on the team when Chelsea scored their 2nd.

Liverpool have some tricky games ahead with Sunderland away and United at home surrounding a very important CL game against Lyon. Interesting times ahead. Gonna have to pray for no injuries during the international break.

[KK77]

Didn't think it was a 2-0 game myself but that's football. First goal always crucial in these games and proved so. Thought we got into plenty of good positions out wide but final ball was very poor along with our corners which in general are poor. Good weekend for Chelsea overall and possibly Man City if they win tonight. O and Drogba is a stain on the game.