James V Gerry Programme Battle

[Gerry Desmond]

Apologies to anyone (nearly everyone far as I could tell!) who got an 'arseways' programme on Sunday. Pages were out of sequence due to being incorrectly stapled. Every week there appears to be something going wrong, it's very frustrating lemme tell ya. But circumstances beyond our (the editors') control etc etc.

Gerry

[Gerry Desmond]

Originally posted by James


and now back to you Gerry and your programme
Ok nearly every home game so far there has been summit wrong, and everytime you seem to blame someone else. As editor the buck stops with you.
Fix it please as I for one who only this year returned to programme buying ( normally, over last 10 years its just a yellow pages of directors businesses ). Dont spoil all the good work by fcuking it up every week. Let me tell you stapling is a relatively easy job.

And surely someone looks at a copy of one of the programmes b4 the entire print run is printed off.

James, believe me nobody is more p!ssed off at seeing the programme turn out arseways last Sunday than Dave and myself. We have total responsibility for the *content, design, layout and running order*. We write, compile, edit, proof and check all of that, then it's 'put to bed' as the pros like to say and your baby goes into the hands of the people who print the programme and physically put it together. We have zero input or control over this end of the operation.
I have no hesitation accepting responsibility for anything we, as editors, manage to botch up, but I accept no responsibility whatsoever for someting I have no control over. I can't actually blame the printers either in this case as they actually farm out the cutting/stapling to a different company. After bad cutting of a recent issue, v Dundalk as far as I remember, this work was outputted to a different company who botched it up this time. Maybe this says something about the standard of printing in Cork, I dunno?
We put a lot of hard work into getting things right and I am prepared to accept any criticism you care to put on our doorstep about the issue. But please understand it's not very exciting for Dave, Stuart and myself to see all that effort undone by shoddy craftsmanship elsewhere. We've had to stomach the loss of a second colour (for financial reasons) after spending two YEARS trying to get the issue upped to that basic level. We've taken a lot of hits on what we are trying to do with it and it is incredibly frustrating. Sometimes I feel like chucking the whole thing in, and that's a fact.

Gerry

[James]

what about the missing questions from a couple of weeks ago.
the lack of a contact address for the competition the week B4 that

other then that the content is good.
but it does reflect badly on the programme on a whole and i think you'll agree here when the overall presentation/layout/printing /stapling isnt up to scratch.

fair nuff bout the bits out of your control, can only guess what thats like.

jeeze i'd love to know the muppets that canna staple properly.
its hardly rocket science

i mean its fcuking great compared to the old city view from way back that was so short on content they had to have a blank page in it for autographs every week. I mean who were they fooling there. anything else in it was ads ads ads and oh ye more ads.

but any publication has to have the basics right ie layout, printing inc stapling and if the printers that ye are working with cant do this correctly ( cant see why they cant ! ) then surely ye have some SLA (service level agreement) whereby if they fcuk up they dont get paid. There are many printers in cork. threaten to move on if they dont get their act together.

[Jim Smith]

Originally posted by James
jeeze i'd love to know the muppets that canna staple properly.
its hardly rocket science

Sort of like that 'special one off copy' of 4-5-1 you sold me before the Shels game?

[James]

jim that was a special issue, it'll be a collectors item in years to come and you'll be able to sell it for a packet and retire.

anyway i have nothing to do with that
you'll have to contact the fourfoveone staplers and collators and take it up with them

[Gerry Desmond]

Originally posted by James
what about the missing questions from a couple of weeks ago.
the lack of a contact address for the competition the week B4 that

other then that the content is good.
but it does reflect badly on the programme on a whole and i think you'll agree here when the overall presentation/layout/printing /stapling isnt up to scratch.

fair nuff bout the bits out of your control, can only guess what thats like.

jeeze i'd love to know the muppets that canna staple properly.
its hardly rocket science

i mean its fcuking great compared to the old city view from way back that was so short on content they had to have a blank page in it for autographs every week. I mean who were they fooling there. anything else in it was ads ads ads and oh ye more ads.

but any publication has to have the basics right ie layout, printing inc stapling and if the printers that ye are working with cant do this correctly ( cant see why they cant ! ) then surely ye have some SLA (service level agreement) whereby if they fcuk up they dont get paid. There are many printers in cork. threaten to move on if they dont get their act together.

*** The missing questions I have acknowledged both here and in the programme, and apologised for. It might sound naff, but they were in when we set it, I still don't understand what happened there. But I can't do a whole lot about it now other than apologise again.

*** I believe the general layout/design is among the best in the league. That's my opinion and you are entitled to disagree.

*** The thing with the printers is I never, ever, have ANY dealings with them. I have no agreement with them, I have no power to ditch them or whatever. They are employed by CCFC to do a job of printing. Any business arrangement is entirely between those parties. The club decides who their printers will be, they pay what the are prepared to pay, like any business deal.
I know the directors were not best pleased with the end product last Sunday, and for once (!) I agree completely with them.
The way it works is, Dave and I do the stuff at our end. We go to Stuart who sets it all up on his PC. We get him to design it this way or that. When the thing is wrapped he sends it to the printers who we then depend upon to piece it together properly. From A - Z, that's afairly typical process, nothing unusual about it. We never see the end result until we show up on match day. You probably see it sooner than me most weeks!
Now I'm not making excuses for last week's foul up, but in the light of recent events it's more of an embarrassment than a tragedy.

Gerry

[James]

so in the end it all boils down to the directors again.

fair enough you and dave have no dealings with the printers but as ye are editors etc. so it reflects badly on your work to have it displayed in such an amateurish fashion.

I know the directors were not best pleased with the end product last Sunday

more like they werent best pleased with the sales figures cause thats the bottom line, as in any business. but this case you'd wonder wether they actually care about the product!

yea by the layout i was alluding to the pages out of sinque which u mentioned which has nowt to do with u

gerry the reason u r getting the brunt of this is cause you're the only rep from the club that goes publicly online ( fair play for that) so alot of the chit will be directly albeit wrongly at you, as was the case ( so i'm led to beleive ) with the old official site.
the lads got abuse for not updating it when they in turn were getting no support/ info from the club, so what were they to do.


it's all just very amateurish for my liking
a senior club with a junior mentality

[Gerry Desmond]

Originally posted by James
so in the end it all boils down to the directors again.

*** Well, I think you can hardly blame them for a printer's error, in fairness?

fair enough you and dave have no dealings with the printers but as ye are editors etc. so it reflects badly on your work to have it displayed in such an amateurish fashion.

**** Precisely, James, precisely.

more like they werent best pleased with the sales figures cause thats the bottom line, as in any business. but this case you'd wonder wether they actually care about the product!

**** Well again, in fairness, they don't want the programme to be a loss-making venture and I can understand that. I can't say whether they actually CARE about the product itself or not - you'd have to ask them. At a rough guess I'd imagine some of them would like to have something they could be proud of, while others probably couldn't care if you were wrapping chips in it. Just like the fans really...!

yea by the layout i was alluding to the pages out of sinque which u mentioned which has nowt to do with u

**** All right, then!

gerry the reason u r getting the brunt of this is cause you're the only rep from the club that goes publicly online ( fair play for that) so alot of the chit will be directly albeit wrongly at you, as was the case ( so i'm led to beleive ) with the old official site.
the lads got abuse for not updating it when they in turn were getting no support/ info from the club, so what were they to do.

**** I'm not actually a rep from the club, though I can understand how some people assume that I am because I edit the club's programme. Anything I say on this or other MBs, or even in the programme itself is entirely my own opinion. I don't have a problem giving my views on things or to answer queries, but I'd be grateful if people could bear in mind that I am NOT a member or a representative of Cork City Football Club.

it's all just very amateurish for my liking
a senior club with a junior mentality

**** It is amateurish when the programme is printed badly, for instance. People assume the club is incapable of doing anything right. This is unfair because although they paid a printer to do a job for them, it's not their fault that the printers messed it up. I should clarify once again that the printers themselves actually were NOT responsible for the pathetic stapling. Most programmes are done to avery high standard and I think the printers deserve credit for that. There have been a couple of botúns lately, but hopefully that will be the end of it.

[/B][/QUOTE]


James, I still don't know how to seperate quotes so you'll have to make do with my answers as above!

Gerry

[James]

ok having gone away and made myself a quick cuppa and then reading that, and taking a break, half way through cause i was tired.

as an employee of the club r u not a representative in a manner of speaking? ( i presume u are getting paid for the programme?)

yea i know all that, this is my view stuff etc etc and not the clubs

People assume the club is incapable of doing anything right

ok here we go and no doubt i'll leave something out
we have been plagued with boards that do not care for our club

-bishopstown gate
-colin murphy / leceister deal
-dereck mountfield
-selling players for next to nowt BBM,Gamble,Delany just to get a quick buck
- the official web-site


and the list goes on....

[James]

hey look Gerry they gave us our own thread.
I told you the plan would work.
ye of little faith.

Now all we need is for them to give us our own football club.

next stop world domination

i was wondering how long it would go on like this on what started out to be a colin p thread (sry colin p if you are reading this, and sry also for continually beating ye in underage GAA down through the years )

[pete]

Had to skip some of the posts above as too much in one go to read so maybe ai've missed a few things.

We've had to stomach the loss of a second colour (for financial reasons) after spending two YEARS trying to get the issue upped to that basic level

I remember you explained all this to me before Gerry. As I understand it the sales of the programme have to cover the printing of? Therefore all ads go into general club coffers?

IMO its a very short sighted policy by the club. The programme is basically the only official publication that is seen by anyone of the club. Therefore the programme reflects on the club. i.e. bad programme makes the club look bad.

The only city programme i've seen os far this season (Dundalk) looked very good to me. Certainly heads 'n shoulders above, Bray, Longford, etc..... As good as the Bohemioans on & probably only topped for contect by the $hels one.

i've forgotten waht point i was trying to make but hopefully i made one...

[Bernie]

Unfortunately I din't think you'll ever see much praise for the programme as its only when things go wrong that people will pipe up.

I thought the Rovers issue was very good, particularly Diarmuids article on promotion and Daves unsettling piece on Division One.
Considering 3 issues have to appear in quick succession the programme is as up to date and informative as it possibly can IMO. It still is the only official information link between club and supporters.

[Gareth Williams]

Scotty, I think You'll find that it wasn't James who made the Boo, but it was me, due to my frustration at Citys dominance and nothing becoming of it. And if indeed James did boo it was down to the players lack of acknowledgement of our presence which you yourself complained about sooty.

[Gerry Desmond]

...so I missed a lot of stuff there.

Trying to cover some of the points above, quickly:

1) My position vis-a-vis the club, ie whether I am a member or not: I have made it clear before that I am NOT a member or rep of CCFC. I know that you understand that, James, I was just posting it again because not everybody dropping in might be sure of the situation.

2) I'm not going to even attempt to defend the club's position on any of the points on your list above. Why should I, I'm just a programme editor? Or even, how could I - not being privvy to any of the details of any of the decisions. Anyway, I may hold the same position as you on them, or some of them. The only thing I will say about it is this: a different Board made the Bishopstown decision/fiasco.

3) Bernie's point on praise/ things going wrong is particularly well made. It applies well beyond the programme. The 'Murphy Out' brigade have been noticeably quiet the past couple of weeks for instance. But a bad result or two down the road and they'll be spewing off again. As a group of people (loosely grouped together by an affection for a football club) we would want to get a grip, IMO, and behave with a modicum of restraint now and again. We magnify every minor thing that goes askew (a stapling error suddenly implies the club is banjaxed etc etc). Yet nobody who puts the boot in here to Murph or Ollie for instance subsequently has the decency to post again praising those people or even apologising for getting things wrong. Personally, I thought Ollie was MOTM v Rovers. If he had been poor, he would have been slated here. Yet he plays well and there's hardly more than a begruding good word tossed out.

4) I also agree that the Programme is a reflection of the club. We are doing our utmost to portray CCFC in as professional a manner as possible and I believe that given the fact that we are not doing this professionally, the programme is of as high a standard as can be expected in the circumstances. That's not self-praise or whatever, that's my valuation of the product as someone who has been collecting, observing and contributing to programmes for the best part of 20 years.
At the end of the day, and I've said this before too, we have loads of plans for upgrading the programme. It needs to be done in stages. ie An extra colour, four pages of full colour, eight pages of full colour, completely full colour. We thought we had reached the first upgrading step, but we had to go back from it again. We give the club a lot of advice on how the programme should be, but financially they cannot see the benefit of it yet. That's just the way it is, no matter how frustrating it is for us. We know, for instance, that ours has better content than most in the league, but others look better - more style than substance if you like. But punters appear to like style quite a bit!

Anyway, I gotta sign off - I really gotta try to do some work today. I would ask everybody to buy a programme on Sunday and fingers crossed there will be no mess ups this time. BTW, we had our first ever email winner of the ticket competition and the highest ever entry for it too, so thanks to all concerned who took part.

Gerry