Roy Keane interview in the Times

[Razors left peg]

Your opinion or fact? If the latter, have you a source?

IMO it was never better than 50-50 and when he failed to contibute anything on his return is was a lot less.

It was far from 50 - 50. I was in the North terrace on his first night back and there was one bloke holding up a sign saying "Keane Judas", that guy got more abuse from the fans than Keane did. And later in the game when Keane almost scored the majority of the stadium were chanting his name.
And to say he failed to contribute anything on his return is just plain wrong and shows that ur dislike of the man distorts your view of his performances. The one game against France in Landsdowne in particular he was very very good and gave it everything he had, admitidly he wasnt as good as he had been in the past but he was still one our best players

[eirebhoy]

Yeh he was motm in his last game for Ireland, Man Utd (vs Liverpool) and Celtic. Not a bad way to go out.

[geysir]

I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other

Might also have something to do with the lack of mature change evident in Roy to affect any change in public perceptions.

If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager.

Mick McCarthy did a good solid job in Sunderland with petty cash and wipes the floor with Roy in a pound for pound match.
But no one was calling for Mick to be reinstalled with Ireland

But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.

Popularity with an ex player amongst fans can only go so far to affect the level of popularity as a manager or even as a pundit.
If Roy was able to shed 10 years I would be delighted to see Keane at CM

[Razors left peg]

Might also have something to do with the lack of mature change evident in Roy to affect any change in public perceptions.

Many would say that our Roy doesnt need to change

[Stuttgart88]

Mick McCarthy did a good solid job in Sunderland with petty cash and wipes the floor with Roy in a pound for pound match.

Can anyone argue with that - purely objectively if such a thing is possible with these two being discussed?


OK, I'll start - I think Mick did better than solid. I also think Mick had a decent head start on Keane, having been a manager for much longer beforehand.

It seems that Mick's style is to get the players to trust and like him. It seemed to work with certain players, breeding loyalty. It appears that Roy couldn't care less about perception and would prefer if players feared him.

I'd say that this may work with some but Keane lacked the savvy to recognise what types of personality this works for and for what types it doesn't. I think Roy has worked under 2 great managers - Clough and Ferguson. Both were massive characters and very headstrong. However, the impression I get is that Keane thinks this is the only way and that he has probably not recognised how each of these managed, probably subtly and with a degree of wit, to get the best out of non "alpha male" type characters (for want of a better term).

One thing that impresses me about Trap (according to himself anyway!) is that he recognises which players need which type of management.

[Razors left peg]

Can anyone argue with that - purely objectively if such a thing is possible with these two being discussed?


OK, I'll start - I think Mick did better than solid. I also think Mick had a decent head start on Keane, having been a manager for much longer beforehand.

It seems that Mick's style is to get the players to trust and like him. It seemed to work with certain players, breeding loyalty. It appears that Roy couldn't care less about perception and would prefer if players feared him.

I'd say that this may work with some but Keane lacked the savvy to recognise what types of personality this works for and for what types it doesn't. I think Roy has worked under 2 great managers - Clough and Ferguson. Both were massive characters and very headstrong. However, the impression I get is that Keane thinks this is the only way and that he has probably not recognised how each of these managed, probably subtly and with a degree of wit, to get the best out of non "alpha male" type characters (for want of a better term).

One thing that impresses me about Trap (according to himself anyway!) is that he recognises which players need which type of management.

could we say that Keane has a similar attitude to players that Rafa Benitez does?

[Stuttgart88]

No, I think Raf is starstruck by Gerrard and overly accomodating with some others. I think Rafa is more discriminatory - you're either in or you're out, and not just wrt Keane. I do think that Rafa is just as disrespectful of authority as Keane though.

[EastTerracer]

It was far from 50 - 50. I was in the North terrace on his first night back and there was one bloke holding up a sign saying "Keane Judas", that guy got more abuse from the fans than Keane did. And later in the game when Keane almost scored the majority of the stadium were chanting his name.

My own memory of this game is that many many people didn't want to boo an Irish player so sat on their hands and said nothing. When some of the fans chanted Keane's name it may have appeared that "the majority" were delighted to have him back but I think I'd share Superhoops view that it was closer to 50-50.

It's a bit like the media reaction to the half-time booing in Croke Park two weeks ago - it was reported as "Ireland were booed off at half-time" when those of us who were there know that it was a relatively small section of the crowd who actually booed. How does a silent majority make itself heard?

[bennocelt]

Yes but Im sure u dont think he did a terrible job at Sunderland either. Dont get me wrong I dont think he did brilliantly there but as Ive said earlier in this thread I think he did a good job for his first job in management and will improve for the experience

not a terrible job, but not so good either - lets be honest, he bought some shocking players, really dire stuff
Also spent well over 40 million, which should really be mid table, or pushing for europe expectations

[eirebhoy]

He did buy a lot of really bad players but I think he left Sunderland with a good team.

[DeLorean]

There is a lot of rubbish there but he had to pay over the odds to try to get Sunderland to where they want to be. I remember watching the Derby West Brom playoff final and they were saying that it was the most valuable match in history with increased Premier League prize money and TV rights and all that stuff. It was worth over £60m to Derby for winning it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot..._1/6689971.stm
Well Sunderland were also promoted that year and have maintained their Premier League status so presumably he hasn't cost the club a great deal financially.

That said his signings at Premier League level should have been better and I'm not saying he was faultless. Basically he left the club in a much stronger position than when he took over and I think that's generally how a manager is assessed.

[geysir]

but he had to pay over the odds to try to get Sunderland to where they want to be

so presumably he hasn't cost the club a great deal financially

Basically he left the club in a much stronger position than when he took over and I think that's generally how a manager is assessed.

You appear to be contradicting yourself there.

I don't know much about the Sunderland finances but the owners had to weaken their share value in order to allow more cash (£25m?) to be pumped in.
Suggests to me that the board allowed Keane's purchase spree and associated wages to far outweigh income.

Not much use to anybody if a club spends way beyond its means to achieve a certain stability and the manager gets the hump because basically he has run into the brickwall of his limitations. That brickwall of his limitations is partly the normal learning curve of a new manager, but Roy's wall is reinforced with a ton of his own baggage.

[Drumcondra 69er]

If any other former Irish international did the same job at Sunderland as Keane did people would be falling all overthemselves praising him and saying that he is a definate future Ireland manager. But because of his history some people cannot wait to see him fail and will jump at any chance to have a go at him. Simple fact is though that the vast majority of fans in Landsdowne Road were delighted that he was back when he returned under Kerr and he remains very popular with these fans.
I did say at the start when I posted the interview in The Times that it wasnt going to change anybodies opinion of him one way or the other

Rubbish. There's one ex Ireland legend who's finished 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and mid table in 6 Premier League seasons as a manager and people nearly had a heart attack when he was touted for the Ireland job before Trap got it. Mainly because he has a reputation as a cheque book manager who rubs people the wrong way after a period of time. What's the difference between him and RK other then the fact he managed to get top 6 and above consistently when he was spending and over achieved when he had a limited budget?

Your second point is also garbage, the vast majority of people from Cork and Man U fans were delighted to see him back, there was plenty of others who buttoned it as they wouldn't boo an Irish player at an international. In my experience there's a lot of antipathy towards him from LOI fans for example, he was roundly booed at Dalymount when Sunderland played Bohs a couple of years back.

[smasher]

Rubbish. There's one ex Ireland legend who's finished 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and mid table in 6 Premier League seasons as a manager and people nearly had a heart attack when he was touted for the Ireland job before Trap got it. Mainly because he has a reputation as a cheque book manager who rubs people the wrong way after a period of time. What's the difference between him and RK other then the fact he managed to get top 6 and above consistently when he was spending and over achieved when he had a limited budget?

Your second point is also garbage, the vast majority of people from Cork and Man U fans were delighted to see him back, there was plenty of others who buttoned it as they wouldn't boo an Irish player at an international. In my experience there's a lot of antipathy towards him from LOI fans for example, he was roundly booed at Dalymount when Sunderland played Bohs a couple of years back.

Yes.
Many of the people I know who are Keane fans are bar stool experts who do nothing to support football at a local level

[youngirish]

I remember reading that the famous food critic A. A. Gill after being ejected by Gordon Ramsey from one of his restaurants for previously giving him a negative review described the erratic chef to the media, "Ramsay is a wonderful chef, just a really second-rate human being".

That quote has always reminded me of Roy Keane and that article enforces the view I've long since held about the man. "Keane is a great footballer, just a really second-rate human being." Now that he can no longer astound us with his heart, ability and determination on the football field the glaring deficiencies in his personality have become only too obvious for everyone to see.

[Wolfie]

Yes and its no harm to let him know it either.

Roy if your reading your a bit of a gob****e.

Its for your own good Roy because like some famous/powerful people you have to be told how it is every now and again.
Pleased to be of service.

Calm down Roy

I thought that might smoke you out!!

Well you are either Roy or one of his bitches!!

On the contrary - I don't have much time for Keane, the person.

If you can fail to see the idiocy of anonamously addressing anyone directly on a Football Forum and calling him, or anyone for that matter, a gobsh*te - its neither an act of strength or very clever.

I'll make an exception in your case though - YOU'RE a prize GOBSH*TE!!!

[DeLorean]

You appear to be contradicting yourself there.

How exactly?

I don't know much about the Sunderland finances

I don't either I was just speculating

he has run into the brickwall of his limitations

But weren't Sunderland in a similar position for most of last season and they managed to pull themselves out of it. They have a stronger side this year and would have probably done the same. He was under more pressure last season cos he had it all to prove so I don't get this brickwall of his limitations stuff. I'm in complete agreement that he left in bad circumstances caused by himself and any club should be slow to take him on again. I hope I'm not "contradicting" myself again!!

[geysir]

BL, you wrote that Sunderland spent over the odds
but you also wrote that he hadn't cost them a great deal financially.

Spending over the odds to get to the epl where they still did not balance the books and the need increased to dilute the share value radically in order to raise cash.

[DeLorean]

BL, you wrote that Sunderland spent over the odds
but you also wrote that he hadn't cost them a great deal financially.

I know but I was just speculating that the money gained from being in the Premier League (£60m +) may have made most of it back, clearly not though by the looks of it

[geysir]

Sunderland introduced a novel dimension to English league football transfer business, they bought redundancy.