Séamus Coleman (D Everton b.1988)

[paul_oshea]

What a d!ckhead. I used to like David Moyes.

Ya the two of you are ********s alright.

[paul_oshea]

What a spanner!

Ya i know you are. This name calling is fun.

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought Moyes' comment was fair enough. Coleman was clearly unpolished diamond and his technique and physique have come on leaps and bounds at Everton. That said, I'd hardly say many of the players who come out of the English academy system are particularly well-coached either.

[nigel-harps1954]

I hope people know that was a completely tongue in cheek comment about David Moyes.

[mark12345]

again....

he almost got us to the WC in 2010 drawing with the current world champions twice along the way and only missed out against one of the world powers in a very dubious play-off loss. he then manages us to our first euros in 24 years when far better squads failed under other managers. we are unbeaten away from home in all our qualifiers under Trap. but yes, you are right "he doesnt know what he's doing" and is falling "way short". both these statements are ridiculous beyond words.

Ok let's just look for a second at these ridiculous beyond words statements.

You mention games against current world champions (I believe you mean the then world champions, Italy, but so what).

Fact is, we should have beaten Italy in Bari, given the preponderance of late chances we had against ten men. Fact is also, we should have beaten them at home (particularly after Sledge got that late goal - tactics were all wrong with O'Shea most culpable). Another fact - we got the game plan all wrong against France at Lansdowne - should have been far more attack minded as Paris clearly bore out. And a few days later in Paris we would have qualified had we taken even one more of the several chances we had.

So for Mr Trap - he failed four decent or better than decent tests. Then, we face off against Russia and were taken to school in two games. Another pair of failures.

Fact is, Trap has taken this team as far as it can go. There were options - not saying they would have worked, but they would have at least given an indication that Ireland was intent on playing proper constructive football. So we're up to six failed tests against decent opposition. Then there was the Euros - forget Spain because they're light years ahead of us in their thinking on the game, but Croatia was a tactical disaster and Italy was a challenge to salvage pride. But it was two more failures. Eight failures in tests against the type of opposition which you're likely to find at big tournaments.

You correctly point out that we have sub-standard players and Trap is hampered by this. Agree hundred per cent. But there were inferior players in previous squads with less attacking talent available to them. Remember Trap has stuck with Glen Whelan, who is is mainstay in the middle of the park. His choice and a stubborn one at that. The team lacks a heartbeat but Trap was happy to persist with Whelan. There were others with more skill and presence but he brought in Paul Green as an option. Again, he got us to the Euros so you have to give him some credit. But it has all clearly fallen flat on its face and these choice players of his have been shown up as failures. But yet he persists with them (not with Green now). So the sympathy for him goes right out the window.

So when you add it all up Trap isn't as good as he makes himself out to be. As I said he is due a lot of credit for achievments with other teams throughout his career and indeed with Ireland, but he's reached the end of the road. What disappoints me most is that he promised a whole new approach after the Euros (I was honestly expecting to see something bright and constructive from his team in Khazakstan but didn't). I don't think we'll see it either against Germany or the Faroes. Do you? And then there's another four years gone and we're still stuck down the wrong road.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok let's just look for a second at these ridiculous beyond words statements.

You mention games against current world champions (I believe you mean the then world champions, Italy, but so what).

Fact is, we should have beaten Italy in Bari, given the preponderance of late chances we had against ten men.

So:

The team created lots of chances - not Trap's doing.
The team missed all but one of those chances - Trap's fault.

Another fact - we got the game plan all wrong against France at Lansdowne - should have been far more attack minded as Paris clearly bore out. And a few days later in Paris we would have qualified had we taken even one more of the several chances we had.

So, again, we created lots of chances. Clearly an indictment of the way Trap set the team up.

[Stuttgart88]

Just think of the cahnces we missed vs France in Dublin:

Keane 1-on-1 with lloris, good save, Lawrence somehow missed the follow up (Evra block)
Whelan 1-on-1 with Lloris in last minute

I think we had 4 1-on-1s over the two games.

I have always said here, when all the naysayers were predicting imminent doom against better teams, that we WILL get the odd chance. This has largely proven true. However I am very concerned after the Euros that we won't even get those chances and we'll be outclassed against Germany.

Myabe Coleman is not the best defensively but let's face it JOS aint any better at RB but when we're lacking in almost any threat to the Germans, having a guy who can join the attack on the wing is a must-have. Better to have an unproven defender who can actually get forward than a proven weak full back who doesn't even try to get forward - giving Germany carte blanche to attack our flanks.

Kelly would be a halfway-house solution. Go for it Trap, pick Seamie!

[jbyrne]

Fact is, Trap has taken this team as far as it can go

How much further than qualifying do you think our team of championship, MLS and very ordinary EPL teams can go?
What manager would bring them further?

Eight failures in tests against the type of opposition which you're likely to find at big tournaments.

The fact that we were at the Euros in the first place to be beaten by definately the two best teams and probably the 4th / 5th best team in the competition is a great achievment. As I said far better Irish squads failed to do so over the years.

The grass is always greener etc. I dread the day the "Trap Out" supporters get their way and we go back to the days of finishing 3rd or 4th in our qualifying groups again. I really miss those days too!

[p2011]

These arguments are starting to become tiresome.

In general, a little more "grey area" in these discussions would be good. The absolutism and blind insistence on results (i.e. being satisfied with the 0-0 in Russia) is not really helpful and is a way of simply closing down the discussion rather than engaging in it.

[SwanVsDalton]

In general, a little more "grey area" in these discussions would be good.

Totally agree.

The absolutism and blind insistence on results (i.e. being satisfied with the 0-0 in Russia) is not really helpful and is a way of simply closing down the discussion rather than engaging in it.

Uhhh and there's no absolutism on the other side of the argument (i.e stating pretty much every 'positive' result as either lucky or a diabolical performance, and disregarding any potential achievement under the current manager)?

[geysir]

I watched the game between Everton and Wigan, I thought Coleman was poor to average throughout.
Though at the end of game he saved a point for Everton by inadvertently deflecting a goal bound shot.

[Charlie Darwin]

Poor as in he had a bad day or poor as in he looked a bit lost? MOTD were scathing of Jagielka and Heitinga (who is never a centre half for me - a pure midfielder).

[drummerboy]

Got skint for the first goal and was caught out of position on a number of occasions. Has a lot to learn if he is to play regularly at full back in international football.

[geysir]

Poor as in he had a bad day or poor as in he looked a bit lost? MOTD were scathing of Jagielka and Heitinga (who is never a centre half for me - a pure midfielder)

.

A bit of both I suppose, no doubt he has had better days. Out there he was easily shackled whenever he had the ball, didn't have much of a clue defensively and gave the ball away needlessly. He looked a bit culpable for Wigan's first, but maybe it was a 'genuine' slip.
Yeah, the Everton central defense was poor (at sea) especially first half.

[paul_oshea]

colemans problem as has been mentioned by one or two others as well is that his gaelic background means he has a tendency to follow 'his man' and leaves himself exposed and out of position. whereas in gaelic this would be very good man marking soccer is more about marking the area rather than the man. Anytime ive watched coleman at right back ive never been very confident, always uneasy with the previous point and his consistent jeraey pulling/slight pushing/shoulders(first 2 all gaa tactics to stop yer man getting a yard on yoj), i always feel he is liable to give away a needles free kick at the least or even a penalty. the latter remarkably hasnt happened yet but its only a matter of time

[paul_oshea]

meant to add halfway through above that yesterday he was out of position coming inside an awful lot covering his man because the centre pair were woeful all over the shop

[geysir]

I doubt his rambling tendencies were so altruistic - to cover the inadequacies of the 2 CH's
He was also out of position for us against the Omanis.

Regardless of his poor game yesterday, he has more than enough about him to be considered as an established part our future teams and I'd say the same goes for McClean. But I can see where the doubts come from, re his defensive side. Still I would grit my teeth and echo the previous comments to throw Coleman in there at RB and take the consequences.

[paul_oshea]

He is doing ok against QPR. Everything good from QPR is coming down his side though. He has a habit of getting pulled in too central, jagielka seems to be instructing him throughout.

[paul_oshea]

He has given the ball away poorly twice.

[Crosby87]

Jagielka looks like someone famous.