Public service pension levy announced

[NeilMcD]

Its only symbolism? Does anyone truly expect the Govt to use tht €1.4 billion to better the lives of anyone?

It has, however, taken €1.4billion worth of spending power out of the economy. Which will absolutely impact people. A colleague of my wife is now considering leaving the public service as when her revised salary has travel and child minding removed leaves her with the grand total of €60 per week (She'll be down about €40 per week). She was struggling as it was. I hate people who use extreme examples to back up their point but the realilty is that for a huge amount of young families with the parents working in the civil service, cutting €30-100 per week from their budget is going to hurt them.

Which will cause them to spend less, which will lead to further trouble in the private sector which will lead to another cycle of this rubbish.

Does it affect someone on €300k? Does it ****

Career break would be a better option I reckon for her if she can manage it.

[Fr Damo]

I hate people who use extreme examples to back up their point but the realilty is that for a huge amount of young families with the parents working in the civil service, cutting €30-100 per week from their budget is going to hurt them.

If somebody is paying 100 per week in a levy it must mean the income is around 100k before tax. The levy is tax dectuable (41%) and therefore altough not palitable better than a p45 or a paycut of 20%. I know lots of people like you describe in the private sector who earn 35- 40 k in industry who have taken pay cuts equal to this amount in cash but after the pill was swollwed they got on with it.

Which will cause them to spend less, which will lead to further trouble in the private sector which will lead to another cycle of this rubbish

which will reduce prices and bring us where we need to get. If the child care you refered to was 50 less a week (which will happen as they fight for business) you friends wife will have 70 quid in her pocket after the levy rather than the 60 she currenlty netts off. This is the model we have to approach in my view, to get competitive again and start exporting.

[NeilMcD]

I was expecting other schemes alongside the public pay/pensions & was amazed this is all them came up with in a few months. Really have to wonder what the government do every day.

I know its not their job to run the country but if the unions object they really should look at providing an alternatives.

No mention of any cuts in Minister pay, Junior Ministers etc... Surprised little mention of that.



I think she is usually worth a read. She is correct on that.

By the way I think Sarah Carey is one of the most hateful figtures in Irish media. A littled privelaged girl with right wing views. I have seen her at many debates and she represents everything that is wrong with this country in my view.

She is attacking the wrong person in Begg also. He is a very impressive performer who does represent the workers. I she has no dig at IBEC. She has fallen for the narrative of the debate despite having a go at it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

By the way I think Sarah Carey is one of the most hateful figtures in Irish media.

I'd still be about her like a rat in a dustbin.

Incidently, I'm grateful I'm less likely to lose my job than many. But unless I can't count -I've just lost about 25% of my disposable income.

[NeilMcD]

I'd still be about her like a rat in a dustbin.

Incidently, I'm grateful I'm less likely to lose my job than many. But unless I can't count -I've just lost about 25% of my disposable income.

Depends on what you call disposable income too. Is this after rent or mortgage and esb and gas etc. Disposable income is a subjective term and a moveable feast.

[Dodge]

If somebody is paying 100 per week in a levy it must mean the income is around 100k before tax. The levy is tax dectuable (41%) and therefore altough not palitable better than a p45 or a paycut of 20%. I know lots of people like you describe in the private sector who earn 35- 40 k in industry who have taken pay cuts equal to this amount in cash but after the pill was swollwed they got on with it.

I used the 30-100 as if both parents are public servants (as is the case in numerous of my friends) then both parents are down 30-50 euro each

And there are plenty of people in the private sector who haven't received pay cuts (or any other term)

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=Fr Damo;109854



which will reduce prices and bring us where we need to get. If the child care you refered to was 50 less a week (which will happen as they fight for business) you friends wife will have 70 quid in her pocket after the levy rather than the 60 she currenlty netts off. This is the model we have to approach in my view, to get competitive again and start exporting.[/QUOTE]

I think most of us can agree though that the biggest driver in prices increases was the rise in house prices. People needed bigger and demanded bigger wages at social partnership meeting in order buy houses etc. Wages had to increase in order for people to feel they could buy houses. This in turn drove up house prices further as the rules for mortgages became less stringent. Cheap credit and profiteering to a huge level by developers in my drove up our cost base right across the country. I know this is back of an envelope economics but it is pretty close to the truth in my view.

[Wolfie]

I think most of us can agree though that the biggest driver in prices increases was the rise in house prices. People needed bigger and demanded bigger wages at social partnership meeting in order buy houses etc. Wages had to increase in order for people to feel they could buy houses. This in turn drove up house prices further as the rules for mortgages became less stringent. Cheap credit and profiteering to a huge level by developers in my drove up our cost base right across the country. I know this is back of an envelope economics but it is pretty close to the truth in my view.

Indeed. The implication of the pension levy for myself and the missus (both of us public sector workers) is that well over half of my reduced monthly wage will now go on mortgage repayment.

We moved house partly based on the knowledge that our earnings would at least stay the same and increase by virtue of increments, towards 2016 increases and possible promotion in the future.

I understand that this was undertook of our own volition but its a dramatically changed economic landscape to September 2006.

All of this will have the effect of us tightening our belt further, thus not releasing very much of our remaining disposable incoming into the economy.

[Macy]

Depending on how it's treated, it will leave me and the missus with bugger all after bills (what I'd consider disposable income, as everything else is accounted for).

We could probably save money moving the children from a proper regulated creche to an unregulated, most likely cash in hand childminder. That'd probably cost a couple of the workers in the creche their job, and increase social welfare payments. We're lucky that this would be a choice rather than a necessity, and we can still afford to base the decision of quality of care rather than cost. Others won't be so lucky.

We could probably save money by stopping our health insurance for the family too. I'm sure an extra burden on the public system is just what it needs at the moment also.

[Fr Damo]

I used the 30-100 as if both parents are public servants (as is the case in numerous of my friends) then both parents are down 30-50 euro each

Fair enough but it's still a house hold with 70 - 100k coming in

And there are plenty of people in the private sector who haven't received pay cuts (or any other term)

Wouldn't agree... Cant quantify the numbers but it's wides spread. EG A Car salesman for example might depend on commision for half their income, they are selling zero at present and are therefore on a 50% pay cut! Our company, directors 25% cut, managers 10% cut factory floor 5% cut. I could go on about three day weeks and short time also (this is not in the figures).

This is bench marking.
There are obviously a couple of public service workers on here and I have no axe with any of you, I feel the last couple of days will probably galvanise the population to get through this becasue we are all in it. (except the ESB!! but that's another day)

[Dodge]

A couple earning 70k between them have practically nothing at the moment Damo. Don't forget that both already pay 6.5% of that into their pension, both pay PRSI at rulle rate and tex just like everyone else. Mortgage of roughly €1k per month, rising bills, childminders of roughly €1,200 a month, transport costs etc etc etc

70k for a family of four is nothing.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Depends on what you call disposable income too. Is this after rent or mortgage and esb and gas etc. Disposable income is a subjective term and a moveable feast.

Mortgage paid and largest utility (health insurance -which lets face it -is for having not using and is nothing short of legislated theft) paid and I feel lucky that they are.

Christmas club is gone and summer holiday savings gone so how this affects the people in Smyths toys on the ennis road and in Kilkee I'm not sure -but adversely is my guess.

[NeilMcD]

Another aspect of the PRSI that the unions do not get across is that anyone who has joined after 1995 pays A1 PRSI. PRSI is meant to be used for when you are leg go and need to seek job seekers allowance as they are calling it. However a civil servant is unlikely or never to be seeking job seekers allowance so to pay at the A1 rate is another form of additional taxation. It is like me insuring myself against the possibility of an accident giving birth to a child. (now creating one may be a different thing).

Wouldn't agree... Cant quantify the numbers but it's wides spread. EG A Car salesman for example might depend on commision for half their income, they are selling zero at present and are therefore on a 50% pay cut! Our company, directors 25% cut, managers 10% cut factory floor 5% cut. I could go on about three day weeks and short time also (this is not in the figures).

This is bench marking.
There are obviously a couple of public service workers on here and I have no axe with any of you, I feel the last couple of days will probably galvanise the population to get through this becasue we are all in it. (except the ESB!! but that's another day)

The ESB are a private company. We have had an agenda of privatisation both in the EU and by this government. As a result a company that makes a profit is entitled to give its workers what was agreed as part of the pay deal. However if ESB was still owend by the state they would not be able to pay these increases as the government would tell them not to. Secondly the ESB provides a dividend to the state each year so it is a net contributor to the state. IBEC were caught out on this as they have called for privitastion for years in the energy sector and other sectors. They forgot than ESB is now a member of IBEC and they should have been representing them, when they were reminded of this, they backed off and started to back the ESB. It was laughable.

[Fr Damo]

Sorry to be strying off topic but my point ref the ESB was in relation pricing and thus wage agreements, I am aware bthey are private.... You would think they are living in a differnt country though. John Gormless was on at one with RTE saying he believes Eammon Ryan will be asking them to revisit their prices. Ahem...

Interesting tale about IBEC and ESB though.

[NeilMcD]

But the reason that prices are so high is due to the regulator not letting them drop them when oil prices were low. What is the reason for this, well private companies would not enter the market because they figured they could not make a profit out of the sector. As a result the ESB have been told to keep their prices high in order to attract the likes of Denis O Brien to the market. However our right wing media esp the Sunday Indo do not do their home work on this, why because they are owned by both O Reilly and by O Brien. We have the strange situation that breaking up a monopoly is actually increasing the price of electricity and causing us to be uncompeititive. It goes back to a point I have said before, that ideology should never be the way to approach problems, its what I admire about Obama in that he seems to be solution based rather than ideology based.

[Fr Damo]

So they put the prices up to attract "competition"?? Great.

[hula4]

as a public sector employee i genuinely feel it could have been worse, i havent done the exact maths but i can take the hit, it just means i have to be a bit more careful but i suppose thats not a bad thing! but i reckon im the exception as i have no wife, kids etc, i can pay my mortgage comfortably but thats cos i have been very lucky.

there are people in the same circumstances as me that are seriously worried today despite our job security etc.

also was told last night that our taoiseach is paid more annually than the american president, surely this cannot be true?

[passinginterest]

As a lower paid civil servant I can't say I'm happy but I'm willing to take the hit in the hope it'll benefit the country. It's manageable with falling interest rates and general deflation in the price of commodities but it'll certainly make things tighter. I suppose I'm lucky in that neither of us drink or smoke and we have no kids so the mortgage is the primary concern.

[NeilMcD]

So they put the prices up to attract "competition"?? Great.

Yeah the regulator was told to put them. ESB have asked to have them reduced but was refused. ESB makes up 40 per cent of the market now. So to blame high prices on them is simply wrong and to blame it on the company paying their workers what the agreed last year is even worse.

As a 31 year old I am glad I did not buy a house in the last few years. I am glad I spent my money on drink and trips to Ireland matches. I have got more of a return on that then I would have on my over priced house.

[pete]

Just to be clear when I said pay cuts by the government I meant the Ministers & TDs. I wasn't referring to the 1.4 billion from the public sector yesterday. For example cutting 10% of politician salaries is small chance but sends you a good message to everyone...