Shame on Cork and Drogheda

**corkboy360** · 08/02/2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by cheech

How these two clubs can be allowed to even prepare for a season in the Premier Division here is an absolute farce in my opinion.

A ten point deduction is not a big enough deterrent for going into examinership. You sign a fleet of top players, rack up enough points to be safe and then pull the plug.

One of the main things that comes out of this mess is that a lot of businesses are now very wary to do business with eircom League clubs. More than one business has faced financial ruin as they only get a fraction of the money owed to them.

We all get tarred with the one brush. Examinership should not be an option to clubs unless they're prepared to be demoted.

This isn't a rant against fans of either club who I have nothing but admiration for in securing the futures of their clubs.

The fact that both these clubs will probably take their places in the Premier again next year as if nothing has happened. This is a major problem.

We as a league and organisation are a mess. That is why our top clubs have average gates of a couple of thousand.

A lot of fans here are always on their high horse about why Irish people support English teams. Well my English/Scottish club supporting friends and colleagues look on our league as a joke and it is easy to see why.

Who do ya follow yourself ?
That might give us an insight into why you started this thread

To mods: Last time I posted negatives on a club i got a warning. Anything going to be said to this fellow.

**osarusan** · 08/02/2009, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by corkboy360

To mods: Last time I posted negatives on a club i got a warning. Anything going to be said to this fellow.

To be fair, although I think the original poster has gone overboard in some parts of the post, I also think some points are valid.

What the FAI seem to be saying is that going into examinership will result in a 10-point deduction, and nothing more. The majority of Cork and Drogheda fans whose opinions I've read on this site have agreed that their punishment was too lenient - most expected a first division licence at best.

A ten point deduction is not a big enough deterrent for going into examinership. You sign a fleet of top players, rack up enough points to be safe and then pull the plug.

Although I don't expect any club to see going into administration as a positive thing, the FAI ruling seems to say that you can go badly into debt, have the slate wiped clean in examinership, and carry on only 10 points poorer. The punishment, if only 10 points, is not serious enough to deter clubs completely.

If that is what this ruling means, I completely disagree with it. I think it sets a dangerous precedent in the future for when and if other clubs go into examinership.

What I am wondering about is if the FAI felt Cork and Drogheda were "too big" to be relegated, and so were only given the points deduction. I fully agree with other posters though that any anger / frustration should be directed at the FAI for making the ruling, rather than the clubs who are hardly going to ask for more punishment than they got.

**Cosmo** · 08/02/2009, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

The majority of Cork and Drogheda fans whose opinions I've read on this site have agreed that their punishment was too lenient - most expected a first division licence at best.

Hold on a second, I havenrt read any post from a drogs fan saying they expect a division one license. the way the rules are at the moment for examinership theres no reason why that should affect our premier division license. 100% expect a premier division licence (but the rules should be changed that if you enter examinership, it should mean automatic relegation!!)

**Celdrog** · 08/02/2009, 5:54 PM

But the rules should be changed to make it automatic relegation for going into examinership.

**Bald Student** · 08/02/2009, 6:31 PM

The rules should be changed to catch clubs long before they go into examinership.

**pineapple stu** · 08/02/2009, 6:37 PM

There is a new rule now, according to Fran Gavin in the Indo last week -

Originally Posted by Fran Gavin

For example, one of the new rules will be: if a club does go into examinership now, there will be major consequences for them.

So everything will be Ok from now on.

**Lim till i die** · 08/02/2009, 6:46 PM

For example, one of the new rules will be: if a club does go into examinership now, there will be major consequences for them.

Sigh

**Buile Shuibhne** · 08/02/2009, 11:22 PM

Regardless of what Fran Gavin says or thinks - the 2009 Licencing rules are already laid out, and don't stipultate what he says there.

**tiktok** · 09/02/2009, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by higgins

I'm sure the 92.5% savings you made on your debts went some way to making up for it

Yes, all that money we didn't have really added to the club coffers.

**higgins** · 09/02/2009, 3:03 PM

And your available money to spend next season would be the exact same had you come to long term deals to pay all creditors 100% of the money you owe them ??

Did you or did you not gain a sporting advantage ?

As for the rules....
It's clear the FAI can punish the clubs now whatever way they want. There's probably 101 ways to do so. They more or less made it up with Shels i.e. it was for some straight forward rule of not paying players.

If the FAI want to punish clubs they can under the current rules.
Both Cork and Drogheda have broke many rules this year.

**tiktok** · 09/02/2009, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

And your available money to spend next season would be the exact same had you come to long term deals to pay all creditors 100% of the money you owe them ??

The only reason Shels didn't go into examinership is because you would have been forced to sell Tolka. I'm sick to death of bitter Shels fans complaining about a legal route to rescue a company that over 70 businesses in trouble in Ireland are using today, you're paying back 100% of what you owe, well done, I couldn't give a ****.

I've already said we got a sporting advantage in response to one of the numerous posts you've written stating the exact same thing, I (and a lot of other CCFC supporters) expected to be relegated.

We weren't and the fact that we weren't is completely outside of our control.

Get over it ffs.

Both Cork City and Drogehda broke many rules this year?
Do you think that's new information?

**DmanDmythDledge** · 09/02/2009, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fintan Cassidy

Regardless of what Fran Gavin says or thinks - the 2009 Licencing rules are already laid out, and don't stipultate what he says there.

Didn't the rules state that the punishment can be anything from a fine to relegation? So they could relegate somebody next season for entering examinership if they like.

**Bald Student** · 09/02/2009, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Didn't the rules state that the punishment can be anything from a fine to relegation? So they could relegate somebody next season for entering examinership if they like.

That's correct but calling the existing rule a 'new rule' like Gavin did is not correct.

**Celdrog** · 09/02/2009, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by tiktok

The only reason Shels didn't go into examinership is because you would have been forced to sell Tolka. I'm sick to death of bitter Shels fans complaining about a legal route to rescue a company that over 70 businesses in trouble in Ireland are using today, you're paying back 100% of what you owe, well done, I couldn't give a ****.
I've already said we got a sporting advantage in response to one of the numerous posts you've written stating the exact same thing, I (and a lot of other CCFC supporters) expected to be relegated.
We weren't and the fact that we weren't is completely outside of our control.
Get over it ffs.
Both Cork City and Drogehda broke many rules this year?
Do you think that's new information?

Hear hear.

**blueblood** · 09/02/2009, 9:04 PM

Knowing the FAI they'll probably fine clubs who go into examinership

**Buile Shuibhne** · 10/02/2009, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Didn't the rules state that the punishment can be anything from a fine to relegation? So they could relegate somebody next season for entering examinership if they like.

Yes but the rules in the licencing manual were very discretionary, with no definitive sanctions for particular offences. Fran Gavin didn't give any specific details of any new rules.

Delaney since did just yesterday, when he said:

�We are looking at the convenience of entering examinership,� said FAI CEO John Delaney. �There will be a cascading penalty for what you finally settle on after examership. There is currently a 10-point penalty for entering examinership, as happened with Cork City and Drogheda United last season.

�In future, if you only settle 50 per cent of your debt then you will be hit with a certain penalty deduction. If you settle only 40 per cent then the penalty will be higher. That will be up to a maximum of 30 extra points. So that means the total penalty could be 40 points.

�It is based on the English model, but I hope we don�t see it again. I hope to make it that it�s not convenient for clubs who may be fourth in the league and decide we can drop 10 points and still stay up. The ramifications will be a lot tougher now.

�The licensing decisions will be issued on February 16th, the day after the club licensing committee meets,� added Delaney. �We are hoping that next Sunday will bring full clarity.�

� 2009 The Irish Times

These new stricter regulations will be included in the new participation agreement for 2009.

**holidaysong** · 10/02/2009, 10:58 AM

Next Monday is D-Day for the licences then!

**Mr A** · 10/02/2009, 11:08 AM

Interesting, the FAI seem to acknowledge that allowing Cork and Drogheda to continue in the premier is wrong, but this seems to indicate that nothing will be done about it.

**Macy** · 10/02/2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Interesting, the FAI seem to acknowledge that allowing Cork and Drogheda to continue in the premier is wrong, but this seems to indicate that nothing will be done about it.

Too little, too late, by the FAI. Who'd have thunk it?