Delaney: Eight clubs made profit

[pineapple stu]

You announced Shels' loss as E70k. Delaney in the article notes eight clubs with profit and five with losses under E30k. Conclusion - you're either well outside the top 11 or lying.

The holes in Delaney's point have been pointed out in this thread - specifically, bigmac's post.

Think you're just trolling at this stage, TBH.

[Dodge]

Interesting that you refer to a E70k loss as "modest", yet Delaney's figures show put you in the bottom half in terms of 2009 results. Not sure how you reconcile that, even allowing for the holes in the statement as pointed out.

Far be it for me to make excuses for Shels (or Fintan for tht matter) but surely the loss should be measured aginst turnover, and other factors. Whether they're one of the 10 biggest losses or not really isn't relevant. If Shels had a turnover of €800,000 and their loss was €70k, I'd say that was modest (considering they still have funds available to them. If, for example, Monaghan lost €50k on a budget of, say, €200k than its altogether more of a problem.

While accountants may not agree, luckily the league isn't run solely by accountants.

If clubs break even, copngrats to them.

[pineapple stu]

Valid point.

It can be measured against lots of things. I think euro value is an important one though; long-term, clubs need to break even. As % of turnover, it's probably equal to us. Other factors, as you mention, could include things like existing debts or opening retained losses - you'd want to be eating into them as fast as possible, in which case, a E70k loss isn't really modest. Our loss is irrelevant if we make the equivalent profit next year; Shels' squad doesn't seem to indicate they'll be making E70k profit next year.

I think overall, it's fair to say Shels' E70k loss isn't modest. By their standards, maybe, but not for a sustainable club, and certainly not for a First Division team.

[Bald Student]

UCD, Shels and most of the clubs are in the 'modest loss' category. The immodest losses seem to be concentrated in 4 clubs and that's where the big problems are.

[Buile Shuibhne]

I didn't say we made a loss of 70k


I said a potential shortfall of 70k was identified in the budget before the season started. The problem was addressed in the budget by bringing in an additional 70k, either before or during the season.


I've no idea - and neither have you - whether or not Shels made a profit or loss after that, in their end of year figures notified to the FAI.

[pineapple stu]

You said - "In relation to Shels- at a fans forum last Feb, the board told the supporters that the budget for the season ahead would likely fall short of 70k and that it would be made up by drawing down 70K from the sale of Tolka Park."

That's a E70k loss. The asset has been sold long ago. Other sources, including extratime.ie, back up the E70k figure.

higgensian obfuscation doesn't boost your point, and nor does it make your original post in the thread any less nonsensical.

[Buile Shuibhne]

An agreement to sell the asset was made a number of years ago.

Not all the money has been paid over.

Shels drew down some more last season, increasing their income, to balance their projected budget

Separately, you don't know whether Shels made a loss or not last year.

[pineapple stu]

An excellent attempt to redefine accounting. Bravo.

[Buile Shuibhne]

A stubborn attempt to avoid acknowledging that you got this one wrong.

[gael353]

the way the FAI calculate "profit" in their eyes is as follows. Lets say that last year your club ran into debt to the tune of 2 million. This year you logged up 1 million of debt. Therfore you have reduced your yearly debt by half thus resulting in a 1 million profit! lol now i dont think any club made profit maybe one or two broke even but this made profit thing is a joke.

[oldyouth]

Nope. Loan interest, yes. Depreciation, yes, but land and buildings tend not to be depreciated. It harks back to the olden days when such items kept their value.

I was only trying to make the point that The Youths spent far more last year than we took in. Jeez, what an example you are of the craic to be found at UCD home games. The place must be filled to the rafters every time

[Candystripe]

Derry aren't one of the profitable ones either.

Normally I would agree with you but I'm guessing Delaney has included both Mc Court and McGinn's transfers and the profit Derry has made/will make from the friendlies with Celtic.

So you can add Derry to the eight clubs he's talking about.

[Black and White]

Maybe hes just trying to cover up how the FAI have made a balls of the league since they took over running it!!

[MariborKev]

profit Derry has made/will make from the friendlies with Celtic.

Profit from them?Ha.

I'd still be confident(unfotunately) that we are not profitable.

[Bald Student]

A stubborn attempt to avoid acknowledging that you got this one wrong.

He didn't get it wrong. Capital income appears on a cash flow statement but not the P&L account.

I think the two of you are just speaking at crossed purposes. A lot of clubs do their accounting on a cash basis and would consider themselves to have broken even if they finish the year the same amount of money in the bank account as they started but by any normal standard money from the sale of a fixed asset can't be offset against an operating loss.

[LeixlipRed]

Don't think anyone thought it was, in fairness.

Yawn, someone posted that they believed we were among the clubs posting a profit. I'll enjoy our 3 victories over UCD this season. It'll be easy to spot you crying in the stand Stu

[John83]

I was only trying to make the point that The Youths spent far more last year than we took in. Jeez, what an example you are of the craic to be found at UCD home games. The place must be filled to the rafters every time

We're considering giving him his own half time show.

Maybe hes just trying to cover up how the FAI have made a balls of the league since they took over running it!!

"Made"? Failed to unmake, surely?

[Rovers Maniac]

Sligo Rovers are 1 of the 8 clubs

[John83]

Sligo Rovers are 1 of the 8 clubs

Considering the pleading for donations they had to go through mid season, I think this ends any little credibility Delaney's claims had.

Truth is, I don't care how many clubs made money last year. I'm much more interested in whether the league's reached a tipping point and the FAI's going to use the recent financial woes to force proper budgeting on the clubs. Their rejecting various proposed budgets so far has me hopeful.

[Rovers Maniac]

Considering the pleading for donations they had to go through mid season, I think this ends any little credibility Delaney's claims had.

Truth is, I don't care how many clubs made money last year. I'm much more interested in whether the league's reached a tipping point and the FAI's going to use the recent financial woes to force proper budgeting on the clubs. Their rejecting various proposed budgets so far has me hopeful.

Ya but stil made a profit you can't call a profit a loss !

I think the FAI should have be doing this last year but choose to ignore it. I will give them a season to get it working correctly imo, ut i think they have made a decent start all though i would have some concern they have gone from one extreme to the other, but lets wait and see.