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Thread: The Worst Taoiseach in State History?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebeard View Post
    Surely that should not have been a trip to be undertaken by the Minister for Defence? Surely that would be Jimmy Devins brief?
    Wille is the local TD which apparently makes him the best option. Wille said afterwards he pleaded with Michael Dell.
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    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    talking about wastage - do we really need to have so many TDs in this country, do we need the Seanaid, or what the hell do we have an army for? - amongst other things!

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    Seasoned Pro Bluebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Wille is the local TD which apparently makes him the best option. Wille said afterwards he pleaded with Michael Dell.
    I thought that Dell was out in Bray, or thereabouts. Or local in that he claims Shannon is in his jurisdiction (for this kind of thing), and the stop-overs mean that he is essentially the local TD for all of the US?

    Representative of sovereign state "Pleading" with business exec. Nice. Should help the standing of the country now that everything has been tossed up in the air. I think I'll look for some kind of WSA Passport from here on in...
    That question was less stupid, though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.

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    International Prospect NeilMcD's Avatar
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    Dell is in Limerick, the one that was closing anyway. Not defending it but just correcting thats all.
    In Trap we trust

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    Red face

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebeard View Post
    I thought that Dell was out in Bray, or thereabouts.
    You cannot be serious

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macy View Post
    If he had any balls he would've just announced this back in December rather than go through the game playing and time wasting of pretending to try and introduce it through social partnership and instead presenting it in the early hours of decision day. He would also have got full year savings. He's stumbling around the place clueless not sure of his own mind.
    I think if he had had any balls he'd have left Anglo Irish Bank go to the wall. Yes, the government have to refinance the banking sector, but just saving AIB and BOI would have been enough (I can see these been nationalised by the end of the year). I don't see the point of increasing the national debt to save Anglo Irish. Guaranteeing the loans etc that people had would have been sufficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebeard View Post
    I thought that Dell was out in Bray, or thereabouts.
    Cherrywood, close enough.

  7. #47
    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauro 76
    Dont know about you, but I wonder what Barack Obama will think of him when Biffo comes over for Paddy's Day.
    Probably along the lines of

    "Jeez man, now I know why you're paid more than me, when as head of parliament, you can flee your nation on it's national holiday".

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    Seasoned Pro Lionel Ritchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneRedArmy View Post

    As an example, history SHOULD judge Bertie extremely poorly (regardless of his popularity at the time). Apart from the Northern Ireland peace process, his time in office was characterised by personal inpropriety, no real improvements in education and health despite over-flowing public coffers, and responsibility for stoking one of the biggest asset price bubbles in the history of modern civilisation.
    ...that's it in a nutshell. Even on his supposed crowning glory with the peace process -that had reached endgame in any event by the time Bertie arrived and there were others who took far greater roles and risks. Bertie was just in the seat on the headline dates.

    My enduring memory of him will be his answer when asked about the overheated property sector and (treasonous IMO) dripfeeding of servicable land for construction that was being engaged in to keep prices artificially high. He shrugged, he smirked and said there was nothing to be done as scarcely more than half a dozen individuals controlled the bulk of the land in question.
    " I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"

  9. #49
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    Saw Dunphy's rant on tv the other night, but he was right to ask why Cowen was addressing a bunch of businessmen (some of whom are responsible for the current situation) last Thursday evening instead of the wider public.

    Obama addressing his electorate about his stimulus package now. He comes across as welcoming, optimistic, authoritative and confident. That's below our Taoiseach. He goes to China, Japan, and America and talks to power-freaks in the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, to deliver his addresses about how bad things are, and what he plans to do about it.

    The electorate?? "Do as you're told, my way or the highway" is the tone. Running away from his own people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    Saw Dunphy's rant on tv the other night, but he was right to ask why Cowen was addressing a bunch of businessmen (some of whom are responsible for the current situation) last Thursday evening instead of the wider public.
    Not sure I would choose Dunphys rants as basic for political argument but I get your point.

    Isn't Dunphy a FF-er or any I wrong? Maybe he was just a supporter of Bertie? Then again Dunphy changes his opinion so often...
    http://www.forastrust.ie/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Not sure I would choose Dunphys rants as basic for political argument but I get your point.
    Just because Dunphy makes a point, doesn't invalidate it. Christ after all the years you'd expect a politician to deliver a speech without notes - it's hardly the great achievement elements of the media made out (and unscripted me arse). Frankly it's no surprise that he was most comfortable delivering it an enviroment where all FF politicians are in their natural surroundings - a room full of businessmen who have paid for the privledge.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macy View Post
    Christ after all the years you'd expect a politician to deliver a speech without notes - it's hardly the great achievement elements of the media made out (and unscripted me arse).
    Yes. As Ruari Quinn remarked last night on Q&A, it's hardly a cause for celebration for a TD since 1984 to make a half-decent speech. He's had a bit of practice like. Still, if it spawned a little hope I'll look at it positively.

    So it's not the speech itself that's instructive here, more the teenage-girl reaction that has followed. I think it highlights the vacuity and uninspiring nature of previous addresses; and relatedly, that we are desperately looking for any sliver of hope to focus upon.

    While we need substantive causes for comfort, as important is a bit of mollycoddling, the sort a kind-hearted friend might dole out as you go through a particularly harrowing post-session depression. I appreciate the hugely more serious nature of say massive personal debt, but I think the human emotions involved are similar. You're playing a little on faith (that things will be better in the future) but when things are bad I think that's one element of what you have to do. Once people are assured life will get better then they are more committed to making it so.



    [Somewhat unrelated aside: I just came up with one of those silly inspirational quotes that you come across the odd time. "A listless wallowing in the sea of desperation serves no one but the sharks assembled beneath." ] Damn! just remembered you're meant to stay still if there are sharks around! Oh well.. you get the idea anyway..

  13. #53
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    Who does he think he is? Ian Paisley??

    People want their leader to be as I said about Obama in my last post. On the contrary, Cowen looks grumpy, snappy, and is more interested in lecturing than leading people, both in and out of the Dail. That image is horrendous publically, and despite his bull and bluster, he would fail to return to government in an election on that issue alone.

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    New Poll Today. This was taken before the revelations this week.

    FG 32% (-2)
    Labour 24% (+10)
    FF 22% (-2)

    Amazing increase by Labour. Hard to know they taken a big jump in this poll but not in previous ones?

    FF blaming their drop on their "difficult decisions". If they really believe that then clearly they have failed to educate the country on the severity of the situation.

    I would be surprised if these numbers held up for a General Election but would expect them to hold for local elections.
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    That poll has the shinners up 1 too.

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    Eamon Gilmore gave a pretty good speech in the Dáil the day of the pension levy (last Tuesday I think). Way better than Enda's anyway. But aside from that I really don't know how people could be impressed by him. Or Joan Burton for that matter. Still, Gilmore has the highest satisfaction rating of all leaders (and is up 6 points), suggesting there is an element of a positive validation of Labour's performance rather than the poll merely being a reflection of FF's gauche handling of the **** we're in.

  17. #57
    Now with extra sauce! Dodge's Avatar
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    In fairness Gilmore is by far the most impressive political leader at the moment

    Although it'd properly be more correct to say the others look even worse the he does.
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    did anybody see Oireachtas report last night? When Mary Coughlan was speaking some bloke beside her (looked like Lenihan but wasn't him I think) was talking away to himself....have the lunatics taken over the asylum??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    In fairness Gilmore is by far the most impressive political leader at the moment

    Although it'd properly be more correct to say the others look even worse the he does.
    Yeah I agree with that. I admit he's improved a good bit, got a bit more passion, since say the election. Kenny meanwhile.....



    Quote Originally Posted by Den Perry View Post
    did anybody see Oireachtas report last night? When Mary Coughlan was speaking some bloke beside her (looked like Lenihan but wasn't him I think) was talking away to himself....have the lunatics taken over the asylum??

    Didn't see it yesterday. Should be online at some stage.

    Whatever about Cowen being the worst Taoiseach, surely Coughlan is the worst Tanaiste? Worryingly, she's Minister for Enterprise too. I'd maybe get Mick Martin back in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Amazing increase by Labour. Hard to know they taken a big jump in this poll but not in previous ones?
    Because they are the only ones that have said what the country are thinking about the bank bailout. Most of the supposed stilumulus package, like the insulation and school building was said by labour last year. Maybe people are finally copping on to the fact, despite the "easy to be in opposition and not offer solutions" crap coming from Government.

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    FF blaming their drop on their "difficult decisions". If they really believe that then clearly they have failed to educate the country on the severity of the situation.
    This poll taken on Monday and Tuesday, after a weekend of wall to wall ridiculously pro Biffo coverage of the memorised speech. The Government would've collapsed if it had been taken later in the week. I hope people are realising who got us into this mess in the first place, rather than not accepting the measures that have to be put in place to solve it!
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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