I've ranked you below the other defeated play-off teams because your points total in qualifying was lowest. I think that's a fair way to countback. Note that FIFA's ranking has you rather lower, at 21st.Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I don't pretend that the basic idea (essentially, all the teams who qualified are better than all those who didn't) is original, but I didn't realise it was copyrighted?(not to mention being pinched from elsewhere)
Some are much more objective than others.All tables are subjective
A fair point, and all the more reason for an 'end of tournament' ranking similar to that at the end of year in tennis, say.and international football is becoming much like much of the English leagues where all teams, bar the top 3/bottom 6 or so, are capable of getting a result against each other, so the 'tables' are subject to much greater potential fluctuation in reality
I've given you fair credit for both a) getting 18 points and b) managing a second place finish (so you're higher ranked than Croatia, who ended up third). As I've said, it's simpler and easier to follow than the alternatives suggested here.In our case, perhaps we deserve more credit for not losing many games, even if we seem to win precious few (against the 'higher-ranked' teams) in competitive games either!!!
Not a question of being copyrighted, but credit should be given to its source. And the 'FIFA' rankings given are those of their members in Europe, rather than the world ones.
Also re.'countback', whilst acknowledging the points total, any comparison should take into account the relative ranking of opposing teams when matches against them were played....
Er, I don't know who the "source" is. Do you?
Yes, I make no attempt to rank most of the rest of the World against Europe. That really would be subjective, because they hardly ever play each other in competition, like. I'm really interested in the relative strength of non-elite European teams, not how they compare to Argentina/ Honduras/ Algeria/ Brazil.And the 'FIFA' rankings given are those of their members in Europe, rather than the world ones
I did. I've assumed thatAlso re.'countback', whilst acknowledging the points total, any comparison should take into account the relative ranking of opposing teams when matches against them were played....
a) the qualifying groups are of roughly equivalent standard
b) every team starts every qualifying series with a ranking of zero (or zero points, if you like). They improve that ranking by getting more points during the series.
Well presuming it was lifted from another website or media source. So wondered where?
Know what you mean about the European focus, though it is interesting to see in the context of the world as a whole as it gives something to aspire to. And relevant to the recent World Cup!
Accept the zero points concept but not the qualifying groups, except in theory!
Er, in mid-October last I just listed everyone's qualifying points and combined them into one table. Then after the play-offs and each round in the finals I 'counted back' to separate teams knocked out at that stage. As simple as it gets, and with no real bias other than to boost those teams (like NI) who will tend to perform well in an occasional quali tournament. Which I thinks deserves some reward in future ranking and thus seeding.
PS apologies to John 83 for the slightly sarcastic tone above.
We already have something to aspire to. Strip away all the corporate sponsorship cr*p and the World rankings are basically harmless. I just think they're irrelevant to me as a NI fan. We haven't played a single Asian country competitively in 60 years; even if we make one of every three in future, that's one game against Australia, Japan or Korea every 20 or 24 years.Know what you mean about the European focus, though it is interesting to see in the context of the world as a whole as it gives something to aspire to
And more importantly, they probably aren't that important to Germany, Holland or Spain. In every four-year cycle they'll play about 30 competition games: 25 will be against other European teams.
Even if seedings for Euro 2012 were based purely on the recent World Cup qualifying scores, as I'd prefer, there will always be some anomalies. Which is why I say the groups are roughly equivalent, not exactly.Accept the zero points concept but not the qualifying groups, except in theory!
OK, so you were confusing us!
The world is getting smaller, so relative standings even for Ireland and say New Zealand or Japan, which are about as far away as they get, are always interesting. Similarly African or the smaller S.American countries who we rarely play, it's good to know where we stand by some relative comparison. Especially as we aspire to play them at some point competitively....
As I said, they're basically harmless and if you find them interesting that's fine. My point is simply that by calculating over too long a period, including irrelevant friendlies and using convoluted formulae to weight different results, they clearly don't reflect reality. See numerous examples up-thread.
If you say so. But most of us would like to see beyond our nose and see a slight clue about our standing in what is a world game.
I've given you rather more than a slight clue (and a more up-to-date and accurate one) of your standing in the European game (ie, consistently mid-ranking just below the elite that normally qualifies). The alternatives offered by both FIFA and Elo are so inadequate for Europe alone, that it pretty much stands to reason that they'll be inadequate for comparing it with anywhere else.
Ok, but as we agreed earlier, you should Get (& Stay, FFS) Out More, to save us all from pointless nonsense on the internet (Self included!)....
From todays Examiner.
Meanwhile, the Republic of Ireland has jumped 10 places to 15th in the latest UEFA ranking of European national teams. However, the UEFA table has no bearing on the FIFA World Cup European zone qualifying draw in Brazil on July 30. There is little prospect that Ireland’s progress in the FIFA world rankings will lift Trap’s team into second-seed status. Ireland currently stand 22nd among the European teams in the FIFA classification, and would need to rise six places in the next ranking, due on June 29.
Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/...#ixzz1OpVJqt3J
I always assumed the UEFA ranking was the FIFA ranking without the non-UEFA members. Really, what's the point of 2 ranking systems?
You'll be in Pot 3.
2014 FIFA World Cup seeding: UEFA pots.
Heres the link UEFA National Team Coefficients to the latest table.
Cheers Geysir. Seems I wad talking out of my hat. Coefficients eh...
Whilst the FIFA rankings are used to seed teams for various draws, has the UEFA ranking any functional purpose?
Not the national teams' coefficients, as far as I know. Each national league has a coefficient of its own and is ranked in a separate table of national leagues. The League of Ireland is ranked 31st in Europe, for example.
Seeding for the 2012 Euro Finalists and the 2016 qual draw, I do believe.
But Edgar is sure to be on his rounds soon and clarify the matter.
You are right. Edgar has dealt with it here: http://www.football-rankings.info/20...eeding-10.html
If progress remains as it is at the moment, we will be at least 2nd seeds for the Euro 2016 draw if not 1st. Thing is though, I think we should qualify easy enough for that tournament irrespective of our seeding. Its a 24 team competition and top 2 qualify automatically, with even the best 3rd place team going through automatically. I have always considered us to be the 17th or 18th best team in Europe, the ones always just short of whats required for qualification to tournaments, the nearly men, but the expansion of the tournament should mean we qualify with relative ease.
I think this UEFA co-efficient that is linked is the truest indication of Traps performance so far. It takes into account the 2010 campaign and the 2012 campaign thus far, exactly what Traps tenure has consisted of and deems us to be the 12th best team in Europe during that period. I think Trap's doubters should bear that fact in mind.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks