The Motoring Industry & The Recession

[Dotsy]

Was it under 12000 miles or six months? They're the only criteria that need to be met, AFAIK, aside from being in personal (as opposed to business) ownership throughout.

It was an Oct 2007 registration and had 22,000 miles on it. It had one private owner.

[dublinred]

Very difficult, and in a way unfair, to compare Irish and English used car prices. In England, once a car is sold to a private party, there's never any VAT on the car again. In Ireland, there's VAT charged every time it's traded in and re-sold. So, for example, take a E25k car in Ireland and England. After one year, it's valued at E18k nett of VAT. The Irish dealer has to sell it for E22k to make his E18k, while the English dealer can sell it for E18k and keep all the money.

I bought a few cars in the Uk and brought them over never had to pay any Vat , did have to pay the VRT eventually which is based on what Irish revenue value the car at in Euros and bears absolutely no relation to the price that you paid for the car maybe this is how they catch up on the vat.

[pineapple stu]

It was an Oct 2007 registration and had 22,000 miles on it. It had one private owner.

Hm. Was going to suggest maybe the export made a difference, but londonred is backing me up. Don't know why they'd charge you VAT rather than take the whole sum, but AFAIK, that's not supposed to happen. Unless the trader had bought it before it was six months old?

[pete]

You do not pay ROI VAT on imported cars more than 6 month sold and more than 6km. Seems from example above UK dealers have to charge VAT on used cars just like dealers here.

[Fr Damo]

I hear main are dealers are getting very worried. The longer people hang onto cars the less likley they are to go back yo a main dealer for the servicing as they will be out of warrenty. The workshops will therefore not be getting main dealer rates for labour and huge margins on OE parts.
The sole trader or family business selling used cars could be one of the growth ares in this recession. Threats V Opportunities.

Or heaven forebid, they brought their hourly rates down! I get me car serviced, (06 1.9 Diesel) by a local family run garage, oil change, filters, screen wash and brake check for 100 maybe 120 euro... 50 for labour about 50 for parts and vat at 13.5% The same routine service in a main dealer would be double that. Remember the days where you booked your car in for the next service when you had just paid for your last anyone?

Saw a link today by Mary Ellen Symon (sic) in that rag the Mail, god she painted an awful bleek picture of the Emerald Isle. (1 letter away from Iceland type rant) It can't be that bad can it?

[pineapple stu]

Seems from example above UK dealers have to charge VAT on used cars just like dealers here.

They don't. The example is an exception. Came up again during the week.

Edit - looking for a link on the aul internet, and used cars in the UK come under the margin scheme, which disagrees with dotsy's invoice. Not sure where that's coming from, unless, as I mentioned, the car was under six months when the garage bought it.

[pete]

They don't. The example is an exception. Came up again during the week.

Edit - looking for a link on the aul internet, and used cars in the UK come under the margin scheme, which disagrees with dotsy's invoice. Not sure where that's coming from, unless, as I mentioned, the car was under six months when the garage bought it.

Is this was used cars advertised as "non VAT qualifying" in the UK?

Can't Irish dealers just allow the VAT on used car sales against the VAT they pay for other items such as parts?

[pineapple stu]

I've no idea what that post means.

[pete]

Is this was used cars advertised as "non VAT qualifying" in the UK?

Example: See the 2nd car in this list

Can't Irish dealers just allow the VAT on used car sales against the VAT they pay for other items such as parts?

Maybe I am completely wrong. Lets say you sell car & charge say 1k in VAT. You also but other products which you are charged 1k VAT on. Can't the business just balance the two sums off as net 0 value?

Not picking on BMW but I heard BMW Ireland advertise Irish & UK used cars this morning on the radio.

[pineapple stu]

Maybe I am completely wrong. Lets say you sell car & charge say 1k in VAT. You also but other products which you are charged 1k VAT on. Can't the business just balance the two sums off as net 0 value?

You can. But it's completely irrelevant. You've just described how a VAT return works.

[Dotsy]

They don't. The example is an exception. Came up again during the week.

Edit - looking for a link on the aul internet, and used cars in the UK come under the margin scheme, which disagrees with dotsy's invoice. Not sure where that's coming from, unless, as I mentioned, the car was under six months when the garage bought it.

The car was definitely over six months old when the garage bought it. The previous owner was Ford Contract Hire so I guess it was a trade sale between them and the dealer and that was why VAT was charged.

[pineapple stu]

That'd be it. Not a private owner.

SIMI's stats for January (not sure if they're online yet; don't see them on SIMI's site anyway) note that new car registrations are down 67%. LandRover are down 95%, Porsche 94% (from 18 to 1) and the best performing make is - private imports. Down 17% on last year though. So while some people are importing, it does seem most are too lazy to.

[Dotsy]

When I was checking my car onto the ferry the customs guy told me that half the cars he sees lately are people bringing cars they have bought in the UK back to Ireland. I guess it has picked up in the last month or so with the fall in Sterling.

[pineapple stu]

Could be used cars as well actually. Figures I was given were for new cars only.

[Fr Damo]

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0126/cartel.html

Why is this chap getting a criminal record and Seanie Fitz is getting off?

Does anyone know how car sales are performing in England against this time last year? I wonder are the German and French marques under the kosh due to sterlings weakness? i.e it becomes expensive to sell in euro into the uk.

[pete]

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0126/cartel.html
Why is this chap getting a criminal record and Seanie Fitz is getting off?

I think thats an old case (possibly posted above in this thread) as there was a load of Citroen dealers at price fixing. The fine is pitiful but it would be no different if they were fixing the price of bread.

Does anyone know how car sales are performing in England against this time last year? I wonder are the German and French marques under the kosh due to sterlings weakness? i.e it becomes expensive to sell in euro into the uk.

A lot of those cars (maybe not the Germans) could be made in the UK? Peugeot used to be in Coventry, not sure if still there...

Reading elsewhere that many manufacturers/distributors starting to slash the price of new cars.

[dahamsta]

• Import carmakers leasing acres of coast to store unwanted vehicles
• Where Are Automakers Stashing Unsold Cars?
• Nissan uses test track as parking lot for unsold cars
• Growing stocks of unsold cars around the world

[pete]

Crazy photo. Wouldn't want to leave your house keys in one of those

[pineapple stu]

British Government absolutely not issuing a bail out to the motor industry in an announcement at 3pm, according to Sky News at the moment.

[the 12 th man]

Just an aside,heard a guy from SIMI reckons new regs for 09 in Jan going to be @ 30% of 08.

Average age of cars in Ireland is about 6.5 years just below UK at avg 6 years,who would have thought the German average is 8.5 years old.

I've only seen three 09's and the month nearly over.