The Motoring Industry & The Recession

[pete]

By may somewhat crude calculations on E20-25k new car the Euro would have to be equal to close to approx 75p for the base (pre tax) prices to the same in the UK & ROI. It isn't that long ago Euro was equal to 65p.

[chopper harris]

I see Lenihan is saying now the UK government have let Sterling fall to give their exporters some competitive advantage and is looking for the other 14 countries who use the Euro to put pressure on Number 11. Isn't Lenihan in the same party as Albert Reyonlds was when as Minister of Finance in 92, actually devalued the punt. Reynolds also claims this to be his most finest hour.
We are not going to get out of this mess with this lot. What odds are there for a General Election for next year? I'm going to put 20% of my weekly pay on, 20% being the cut I accepted last month.

[OneRedArmy]

Lenihan should be shot for his lack of basic economic understanding.

The Brits would've bankrupted themselves trying to prop up Sterling. They may yet bankrupt themselves in any case.

Time to go Brian, you are the Weakest Link...

[brianw82]

I have no sympathy for the motor trade. All these garages springing up from nowhere in 'the good times' and now that times are bad, they're going to disappear just the same.
It's possibly the most frivilous industry in the whole country, based on people's own vanity more than anything.

[the 12 th man]

I have no sympathy for the motor trade. All these garages springing up from nowhere in 'the good times' and now that times are bad, they're going to disappear just the same.

Whatever about the owners of garages there's a lot of ordinary joes out there,mechanics,sales people etc losing their jobs in the motor industry here so it's not as "simple" as that.

[brianw82]

Of course, Joe Soap is the one who pays the price. I'm not 'happy' that he's out of a job.
We have to face the fact though, that there are/were far too many car dealerships around, all trying to sell someone something they don't need (ie. a new numberplate)

[dahamsta]

I've never understood the whole new car every 1-3 years business. If I won a million in the Lotto I'd certainly treat myself, but if you can't afford to pay cash for it then it's just idiocy. It's probably one of the worst "investments" a person can make, given the depreciation in the first year.

adam

[the 12 th man]

I've never understood the whole new car every 1-3 years business. If I won a million in the Lotto I'd certainly treat myself, but if you can't afford to pay cash for it then it's just idiocy. It's probably one of the worst "investments" a person can make, given the depreciation in the first year.

adam

As well as the status thing,I think a lot of people don't want the bother of things going wrong/replacing parts etc thats involved with owning an older car and are willing to pay a premium.

We need 2 cars in my house-mine is a 99 reg and the missus's is 00.

There's something to be said for not having a car loan

[Fr Damo]

I've never understood the whole new car every 1-3 years business. If I won a million in the Lotto I'd certainly treat myself, but if you can't afford to pay cash for it then it's just idiocy. It's probably one of the worst "investments" a person can make, given the depreciation in the first year.

I agree I would never buy a new car but your logic of not buying one without credit from somewhere needs explaination.

How do you expect a family with 2.4 children on one income of average industrial wage and the other income part time in Centra save 20k for a 2 year old diesel while running their current rust bucket into the ground? Car are a depreciating "asset" but very few on the roads are outright purchases with Cash. That is except for yours obviously..... and the travelling community. Not one company I worked for bought their reps cars outright, the IIR and cost benifit analysis was always in favour of hire purchase and these companies had very bright financial accountants!

[pineapple stu]

I've never understood the whole new car every 1-3 years business.

Pure Irish vanity, made more obvious by our almost unique registration system. (Though I do think it's one of the clearest systems in the world too).

Interesting to note the quantity of older cars in almost any foreign country you go to. I was in Spain over the new year, and there were Renault 4s, Renault 5s, Seat Marbellas, Seat Malagas, old Fiestas - nobody would be seen dead driving one of those in Ireland.

[dahamsta]

As well as the status thing,I think a lot of people don't want the bother of things going wrong/replacing parts etc thats involved with owning an older car and are willing to pay a premium.

With modern cars, a difference of 1 or 2 (or more) years will make very little difference. That'll be a saving of 1k minimum, and more as you go up the scale. Planned obscelence will kick in at some point, but my old man's quarter-million mile Carina E diesel might beg to differ.

I agree I would never buy a new car but your logic of not buying one without credit from somewhere needs explaination.

The point I was trying to make is that buying a new car, by whatever method, is like flushing money down the toilet. The minute you walk out the door you've written off a minimum of a thousand euros, as I mentioned above, and probably a lot more. So unless the person has major disposable income, they're a fool. You can switch "cash" out for "disposable income" if you like, but I'd probably come back and tell you that anyone with that kind of money buying a car on credit is also a fool. A house maybe, but not a car.

adam

[Fr Damo]

still not sure of your logic Adam becuase I while accept a car will depreciate more in the first couple of years than the rest of it's life, but weather that money is yours or the banks, it's still gone. Isn't your argument more about the value of the depreciation rather than how it is funded?

Credit is the heart beat of an economy, Ireland even more so as we only have 4m consumers here. The Credit crunch as it has became know is now turning to a depression becuase individuals, businesses and banks are deleveraging (getting rid of debt) as the market does not know how many people have have taken on this prudent approach, (ie where the bottom is) Obviuously I am not blaming this practice for the calamity we find ourselves, but we should have taken these steps over a much longer time say 3 years rather than this short sharp shock that many will not recover from.

What odds are there for a General Election for next year? I'm going to put 20% of my weekly pay on, 20% being the cut I accepted last month.[/quote]

Chopper, Labour (Gilmore) calling for one now rte.ie. It ain't far away. Trouble is I don't think anyone inside the Doyle (as spelt on BBC subtitles once) can get us out of this. Get rid of Coughlan and we'd be going somewhere before any election imo.

[dahamsta]

You're not reading my posts Fr Damo. I've never once argued against credit, you've assumed I have. I have no idea how or why. How many times do I need to stress the word "new"?

adam

[Fr Damo]

Have read your posts alright (idocy, new car, cash only) but I'm sorry if I can't differentate between new or 2nd user, borrowed money or bought from cash. The nett result is still the same, money lost. Individules have to make the purchase that best suits them out of the four components above.

I simply asked you to qualify the statement "if you can't afford to pay cash for it then it's just idiocy", I am satisfied we have a difference of opinion.

[Macy]

As well as the status thing,I think a lot of people don't want the bother of things going wrong/replacing parts etc thats involved with owning an older car and are willing to pay a premium.

I think for a lot of people it is the second part - the road side, 3 year warranty etc (depending on manufacturer). Also, they tend to get a better trade in, and in these times accepted as a trade in! Peace of mind is something people will pay for. We got a nearly new last year though, and we get what's left of the warranty etc, at the discounted price.

[pete]

The biggest depreciation in the first 3 years. Bigger cars will lose half their value. I think many people replace after a few years as it is a know cost i.e. the gap between trade in & new car will be the same every 3 years. That said replacing a car every year is insane.

Anecdotally dealers are not even accepting trade ins from regular customers & will only do a deal with have someone already lined up for the traded car.

[dahamsta]

I'll be buying 2nd hand luxobarges exclusively when I'm done with the cost-saving van, except perhaps for a little male menopause coupe at some point. A €100k luxobarge loses €10k a year in depreciation, so you can get a 10yo one for about 10k. The running costs are high but they're generally well serviced by main dealers, they go forever, they don't lose any more value, and they're essentially disposable in the unlikely even that anything big goes wrong.

Good old Maurice is still serving me well though! Who need a saloon when the wife's got one?

adam

[pete]

2009 first 10 day figures at down 70%! I wonder what numbers the Dept projected for their tax revenues.

[Fr Damo]

Was on my travels yesterday and saw two more 09s in Laois, both Audi A4s, one was 262 the other was 360 something. Pete, I agree, knowing this Government they budgeted on last years figures minus 20% or somthing. Interestingly last Jan was up on Jan 07 and we were already 5 months into the crunch and many had forecast the "R" word (we were already in it probably) coming. I guess some of those cars were pre odered in Oct Nov as cocky salesmen had consumers under pressure to pull the trigger due to long lead times from the car factory. That's only 12 months ago folks, 12-16 weeks for a car, Colour, Model, Spec of your choice. I called on a Truck Body Builder yesterday, closed until 2nd of Feb. I aslo called on a County Council Machinery Yard, The engineer in charge has no money for new plant and hasn't the funds to take on the two apprentice mechanics who finish in March. He is sending his 6 drivers out today to clean ivy off bridges, there normal work would be road maintance but the budgets for 09 have not come through yet.

[pete]

I believe January 2008 was a record month which will make this years look even worse than normal.

Germans introducing a E2,500 scrappage scheme for 9 year old cars but that is more about their car manufacturing industry than retail car market. I can see similar scheme here again.