The Motoring Industry & The Recession

[pete]

Pete

That price (in the link) is in Euro with Republic of Ireland VAT and VRT paid and offers a saving of €5k on a Qashqai 1.5 dci Visia

My post was badly phrased. was trying to agree that NI dealer is very clever as hassle of VRT is likely to put off many people. If someone wants a new car & can save thousands going north is it a no brainer.

[gaiscíoch]

One '09 so far in Castlebar driving home. Thats all I've seen. The prices are still a joke €15,600 a bog standard Peugeot the motor industry aint copping on. If they inproved the spec of the cars then maybe people could be presuaded to part with a few bob.

[paul_oshea]

the country dealer has since sold a few new cars to friends and rang me one day to thank me for recommending and offered a free full service on my car which he followed up in writing.

Thats country

IF the pocket hits Stu, people will start going further a field, but i take your point on laziness of ppl. I just dont understand it either. I'd call it the "can't be arsed" gene.

[pete]

One '09 so far in Castlebar driving home. Thats all I've seen. The prices are still a joke €15,600 a bog standard Peugeot the motor industry aint copping on. If they inproved the spec of the cars then maybe people could be presuaded to part with a few bob.

Thats mainly a tax issue.

That said in my limited experience with main dealers especially for servicing the service (pardon the pun) has been terrible. Charging E50 per hour to let some kid tinker if not value for money especially when they actually break things in attempt to fix.

[pineapple stu]

That said in my limited experience

I think you could have stopped there, to be honest.

I had a customer a while back who gave out that our mechanics came from countries where they don't even have BMWs. (We had two non-nationals in a staff of about ten, both from countries with BMWs). Unfortunately, it's those kind of ignorant views which predominate in our moan-centric culture.

[dahamsta]

pineapple_stu, while I agree with you that Irish people are quite lazy (plus of course there's the whole recession business going on), suggesting that they won't travel a few hundred miles to save €5k isn't realistic. If you're going to buy a car anyway, you're going to travel to get that kind of bargain.

Whether it'll stimulate fresh sales in another matter entirely, of course.

adam

[pineapple stu]

suggesting that they won't travel a few hundred miles to save €5k isn't realistic.

Most won't. Genuinely.

In any event, as a cause of the industry's problems, as Pete suggested, it's way down the list. Even the VAT increase is more problematic.

[gaiscíoch]

I wish I was in a position to go over to England and bring back 200 cars. (I know you can only bring back three per year) Sell them for €600/700 cheaper than the dealers.

We shouldn't even have to pay the VRT is not European law.

Just to show how mean some of them are.
We get all this rubbish over-heads this and over-heads that.
Fact is some of the garages will gladly sell you a used a car "as is" not a bother to them. €6000 no gaurantee not even 6 months.

Adding €800 in some cases €1000 to a car to line their pockets.

The motor industry is one of the most corrupt industries in the country.

The recession wont be long softening their cough making it a buyers market.

[pete]

For curiosity sake if nothing else & even at Euro = 90p sterling a new car is at least 20% cheaper importing. The more you are spending the more to save even paying full Irish VAT & VRT. UK VAT plays a part but there is also a 20% difference in pre tax prices. Must be either Irish dealers or distributors who are talking the extra profit but maybe they still think Irish people won't look to save thousands.

[pineapple stu]

Adding €800 in some cases €1000 to a car to line their pockets.

Imagine a business making profits.

The motor industry is one of the most corrupt industries in the country.

Wow. Now there's a sweeping statement. Do you want to offer anything to back it up? Anything at all.

[OneRedArmy]

Imagine a business making profits.


Wow. Now there's a sweeping statement. Do you want to offer anything to back it up? Anything at all.

Its about the only industry in Ireland thats been found guilty of price fixing, cartels and collusion on a nationwide basis. On multiple occasions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1028/cartel.html

[gaiscíoch]

Imagine a business making profits.
.

My father and I both worked in a garage and seen exactly what was happening. Seen a person trade in a car for €1000 less than it's market value two days later it was on the forecourt for €1200 more than it was traded for. Now them there be profits.

Wow. Now there's a sweeping statement. Do you want to offer anything to back it up? Anything at all.

Take off the blinkers mate. Evidence is all around you.

[pete]

Its about the only industry in Ireland thats been found guilty of price fixing, cartels and collusion on a nationwide basis. On multiple occasions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1028/cartel.html

I don't think its fair to tar an entire industry with the same brush except obviously Citroen dealers

I love this quote from link

For the defence, senior council Michael O'Higgins, said profit margins were very tight in the industry. His client was trading for his survival and the deal was not done out of greed or maximising profit.

How did he keep a straight face saying that.

[pineapple stu]

My father and I both worked in a garage and seen exactly what was happening. Seen a person trade in a car for €1000 less than it's market value two days later it was on the forecourt for €1200 more than it was traded for. Now them there be profits.

Now them there be profits? Well duh. As I said, imagine a business making profits. E1000 is a perfectly normal margin for a car. Would you rather it was sold on at cost? In the two days, it was presumably checked over for faults and what have you, adding extra hidden costs to the car. Absolutely nothing wrong with what you just described; just standard Irish hysterics on your part.

Its about the only industry in Ireland thats been found guilty of price fixing, cartels and collusion on a nationwide basis. On multiple occasions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1028/cartel.html

Technically, that just means people working in the motor industry are stupider than normal.

[gaiscíoch]

Now them there be profits? Well duh.

Do they need to rob the general Irish public in the process of making a profit?

As I said, imagine a business making profits. E1000 is a perfectly normal margin for a car.

That's why the motor industry is in a heap.

Would you rather it was sold on at cost? In the two days, it was presumably checked over for faults and what have you, adding extra hidden costs to the car.

I had imagined the €200 was the expense of cleaning and servicing the car?

Absolutely nothing wrong with what you just described; just standard Irish hysterics on your part.

Yes there is something wrong with it. These people made a mint in the last 20 years by ripping off the general public and now times are bad they coming out crying in the media about the lack of car sales. If they lessen their profits then they would sell more. It's simple economics.

[pineapple stu]

Do they need to rob the general Irish public in the process of making a profit?

They're not.

That's why the motor industry is in a heap.

Nothing to do with it, as I've explained earlier in the thread.

I had imagined the €200 was the expense of cleaning and servicing the car?

You had imagined? You've been presenting yourself as someone who knows the industry well so far. Which is it?

The cost of preparing a car depends on what's wrong with it obviously. Out of that grand must come (for a normal garage anyway) an inspection, a valet and knocking out of dents, not to mention VAT on the profit and loss of margin through people haggling and getting better deals elsewhere - a cartel of the people, you might almost say. Obviously, overheads, etc have to be paid afterwards. I'll ask again - do you think the car should be sold at cost?

I'm sorry, but you come across as one who's completely ignorant of what they're talking about, but who wants a good whine anyway. Standard Irish stuff really.

[OneRedArmy]

On that particular point, I'm with Stu. I don't see a problem with them taking a margin of 1,200 on a used car.

BUT, my dads been trying to buy a new car for 6 months and he can't find a particular German manufacturer's dealer to take his car in part exchange, AT ANY PRICE! They won't even negotiate.

If thats not a sign of an industry that is completely doomed in its current structure then I don't know what is.

[pineapple stu]

Large motor dealers are looking to cut stock significantly to improve cash flow while they make large losses on the stock they held around July. They usually have a few smaller traders who they deal with though, and would sell straight on to them. Where are you based?

(I agree it's a bad sign obviously; I disagree exchange rates have caused it).

[dahamsta]

Most won't. Genuinely.

I think you're just pulling that out of the air stu, so I think you should drop it. I will too. Please try to stick to facts from this point forward, as is the policy of the forum.

Its about the only industry in Ireland thats been found guilty of price fixing, cartels and collusion on a nationwide basis. On multiple occasions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1028/cartel.html

The fine in that case is an absolute joke. Yerman must have been laughing his ass off at it.

[noby]

I wish I was in a position to go over to England and bring back 200 cars. (I know you can only bring back three per year) Sell them for €600/700 cheaper than the dealers.

I would wish you well in your venture, but if I was buying a car I wouldn't touch that deal with a barge pole. It would take a lot more than €600 to persuade me to buy from someone at the side of the road as opposed to a dealer.