Sean St Ledger

[as_i_say]

Yeh I don't think a player must be playing in the premiership for us to judge him. But I think McShane is a centre half, not a right back in a million years, and because of his inexperience in that position he needs to be playing beside a decent organiser.

And by the way, a decent organiser could sort out his poor positioning and lack of pace in one go. If that happens you've a great little player imo.

Having said all that though about him being a cb and not rb, would you be happy for him to be playing cb for us now say if josh got injured? Reckon it would be a bit of a disaster, and thats coming from someone who has routinely criticized josh in the past. I can't really see mchane ever having an ireland future at cb, he's just so dodgy.

[Closed Account]

The problem is, as I see it, is that there are a limited number of places in the squad. Alex Bruce was named in a B international friendly against Nottingham Forest, was named captain presumably based on his performance and presence at training.

He has since retained his place in the Senior squad. Until he is injured or has a bad game for us he shouldn't be dropped. Also until any of the other centre back options are unavailable for the senior squad, clamouring for anothers inclusion is pointless.

The problem all stems from the naming of that B squad which named Bruce, O'Dea and McCarthy in the squad, this squad was chosen by Givens and other scouts. St Ledger will get his chance eventually.

[eirebhoy]

Having said all that though about him being a cb and not rb, would you be happy for him to be playing cb for us now say if josh got injured? Reckon it would be a bit of a disaster, and thats coming from someone who has routinely criticized josh in the past. I can't really see mchane ever having an ireland future at cb, he's just so dodgy.

To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

[as_i_say]

To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

I really think O Shea has been absolutely dreadful for us at left back and in any other position except for center back for that matter. He is benefiting now from his partnership with Dunne and even though hes not playing CB at ManU, he's surrounded by quality and it has always been essential for him. I reckon if he ever left united he could find himself becoming the forgotten man.

St Ledger deserves a call up on form. McShane reminds me of Alan Kernaghan, you worry any time he gets the ball. I wouldnt have him near cb for us to be honest! He's had a decent season at right back but doesnt offer much in attack.

[Jicked]

whats the difference between the bolded statement and any other statement made so far - just as opinionated, just as difficult to prove and just as ridiculous.

McShane proved himself a good Championship player in his years at WBA and Brighton.
While he was at Hull this season he's been okay.
And so if he dropped down a division he'd probably return to his better form, that's his level. He's a Championship player.
What about the above is ridiculous?

[FarBeag]

McShane proved himself a good Championship player in his years at WBA and Brighton.
While he was at Hull this season he's been okay.
And so if he dropped down a division he'd probably return to his better form, that's his level. He's a Championship player.
What about the above is ridiculous?

He was an ok player in the championship and he played most of his football at right back with West Brom. St Ledger is good player and plays in the centre. He is by far a better player than McShane or Bruce for that matter.

[Jicked]

He was an ok player in the championship and he played most of his football at right back with West Brom. St Ledger is good player and plays in the centre. He is by far a better player than McShane or Bruce for that matter.

Ok I'll ask again, how many games have you seen St Ledger play, and how many have you seen Bruce play?

[backstothewall]

McShane is not a premier league centre half. He is too slow, too short, and too likely to switch off. Perhaps he can play full back as he seemed to do well for Hull on loan in that position at that level, but theat is as much as we can expect from him.

Bruce is not up to Premiership standard. Thats not my opinion, its Steve Bruce's. And if anyone in the world was going to give him a fair crack of the whip it was his dad.

St Ledger i have hardly seen play, but from what i remember of him in the dressing room in that thing Sky 1 did a year or so back when he was at Peterborough, he is a disruptive influence.

We would be far better off getting both O' Briens from Bolton back in the picture

[irishfan86]

To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

We have good options at full-back.

McShane needs to go somewhere where he is played as a centre-half.

Until that happens, for me he should be nothing more than our 3rd or 4th centre-half.

O'Shea in my view is a natural centre-half who has been playing as a fullback (much like McShane at times).

The only difference is that O'Shea is far more talented technically, and has a far better physique for the position.

No way in hell would I move O'Shea to accomodate McShane.

Bring in Foley, Finnan, a fit Stephen Kelly, Nolan, or even Wilson at Pompey.

But don't put McShane on the field when Dunne and O'Shea are fit.

Even then I'd love to experiment with St. Ledger in a friendly.

McShane just scares the **** out of me.

[FarBeag]

Ok I'll ask again, how many games have you seen St Ledger play, and how many have you seen Bruce play?

Look I do not comment on a player I have not seen play.I don’t support any English teams but I watch TV and attend as many games as I can when Irish players are involved. I have followed Bruce’s career since he declared for Ireland and the same with St Ledger who has declared some time before Bruce's Irishness kicked in. I am a reasonable judge of a footballer’s ability and St Ledger is a better player than Bruce regardless of what Trap or you think.

I also think that Foley should have played instead of Kelly tonight again based on following each ones career.

[Jicked]

Look I do not comment on a player I have not seen play.I don’t support any English teams but I watch TV and attend as many games as I can when Irish players are involved. I have followed Bruce’s career since he declared for Ireland and the same with St Ledger who has declared some time before Bruce's Irishness kicked in. I am a reasonable judge of a footballer’s ability and St Ledger is a better player than Bruce regardless of what Trap or you think.

I also think that Foley should have played instead of Kelly tonight again based on following each ones career.

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

[irishfan86]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

I think they've been on TV around 4 times. I've watched those games.

St. Ledger has been solid in all of those matches. Not really spectacular, but solid.

I have seen Bruce play a couple of times for Ipswich this year and his cameo in the Poland game.

St. Ledger is better technically from the little I've seen. Bruce looks nervous on the ball, and reminds me a bit of McShane generally.

What I will say is that Bruce looks very dangerous in the air everytime I see him play, particularly off set pieces.

Based on the little I've seen, I'd go with St. Ledger in a friendly or something to at least see what he can do.

I'm not advocating that we bring him in, and that he's undroppable, I just want Trap to have a look at him in training and perhaps in a friendly and then make his evaluation of whether or not he's good enough.

[FarBeag]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

Ok Mr know it all. How did you guess i have only seen him play twice? Are you spying on me? Yeah your right he did play a good game against the pool and the one game I saw him play at Peterborough he actually scored a goal. Maybe we could put him up front beside Doyle!

Do you even know where Preston is? And BTW how many times have you managed to push the button on the remote to see him play?

[Jicked]

I think they've been on TV around 4 times. I've watched those games.

St. Ledger has been solid in all of those matches. Not really spectacular, but solid.

I have seen Bruce play a couple of times for Ipswich this year and his cameo in the Poland game.

St. Ledger is better technically from the little I've seen. Bruce looks nervous on the ball, and reminds me a bit of McShane generally.

What I will say is that Bruce looks very dangerous in the air everytime I see him play, particularly off set pieces.

Based on the little I've seen, I'd go with St. Ledger in a friendly or something to at least see what he can do.

I'm not advocating that we bring him in, and that he's undroppable, I just want Trap to have a look at him in training and perhaps in a friendly and then make his evaluation of whether or not he's good enough.

Bingo. You've seen a little of him, and the snippets you've seen suggests he should get a chance. He will, but right now Trap wants to take a look at Bruce. And why shouldn't he? Let's not forget that Trapattoni gets to work with Bruce on the training ground for a week, and has seen a lot more of him then you or I have. Is it really that hard to believe that he sees something in Bruce that suggests he's a decent fourth choice CB? What little he's seen of Bruce in training and for the B side has impressed Trapattoni, and to be blunt, he knows his ****.
Trap went to see St Ledger play a few weeks ago so he's obviously keeping an eye on him and I'm sure he will select him over the next year at some stage. But saying that Trap doesn't know what he's doing, or that its a disgrace that Alex Bruce gets to be fourth choice CB instead of Sean St Ledger, based on seeing him play (on TV) 3 or 4 times, is a little bit ridiculous.

[irishfan86]

I never said that Trap doesn't know what he's doing. I just think he should be brought into a squad to have a closer look.

Trap seems to put a lot of emphasis on making his selections based on what he sees in training, moreso than a player's club form, so bring the lad in and have a look at him.

[eirebhoy]

McShane is not a premier league centre half. He is too slow, too short, and too likely to switch off. Perhaps he can play full back as he seemed to do well for Hull on loan in that position at that level, but theat is as much as we can expect from him.

Couldn't disagree more. He's definitely slow but many centre halves are. Too short? He's been motm against Koller, Davies, Berbatov, Santa Cruz and seems to dominate in the air against any target man. And I think he's constantly switched on (maybe too much ie. hyper) but he does often look a bit brainless with his positioning, movement and general style of play.

As for full back. Pace is certainly more important in that position. As is distribution. He's just not a full back.

He's been very successful at centre half in his career so far. Pity we don't see him there more often. Only for the injury that gave O'Shea his chance in that position he'd probably be playing there for us today but I'm certainly not complaining atm.

[the doc]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

Heres a few clips, of St Ledger playing for PNE click on 2.50, 5.50 and 7.20 for clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nF2XtaJ4N0

[backstothewall]

Couldn't disagree more. He's definitely slow but many centre halves are. Too short? He's been motm against Koller, Davies, Berbatov, Santa Cruz and seems to dominate in the air against any target man. And I think he's constantly switched on (maybe too much ie. hyper) but he does often look a bit brainless with his positioning, movement and general style of play.

As for full back. Pace is certainly more important in that position. As is distribution. He's just not a full back.

He's been very successful at centre half in his career so far. Pity we don't see him there more often. Only for the injury that gave O'Shea his chance in that position he'd probably be playing there for us today but I'm certainly not complaining atm.

Can't agree.

I can't remember McShane putting in a motm performance in any game. I remember a decent performance against the Czech Republic, but even then iirc correctly he was pushed off the ball easily for their goal. And Koller has never been the threat in the air his height would suggest

What i also remember is Everton 7-1 Sunderland when he put in a Bambi on ice performance. He is an accident waiting to happen, from the Titus Bramble school of defending. I am terrified every time he goes near the ball

I agree pace is important for a full back, though you can get away without it - Gary Neville or Denis Irwin were never the quickest. The reason i suggested he might have a future at full back is because he can do a bit less damage out there than in the middle. He will never be overlapping on the wing and getting crosses in, but at least he might get the chance to learn to defend.

Of all his failings at least positioning and reading the game can be learned, though he would need to get a shift on

[eirebhoy]

He was immense against the Czechs. I think I'll have to put together a montage of that one because I have to repeat it so much.

[tetsujin1979]

The reason i suggested he might have a future at full back is because he can do a bit less damage out there than in the middle.

Then why not just drop him altogether? He can do no damage at all then!
BTW, I don't want to see him dropped, but right now I don't think he's going to be anything more than back up at centre half for the foreseeable future