Comparison of Irish clubs in Europe versus Scottish clubs in Europe

[born2bwild]

Yeah but I think that the presence of the GAA is the main reason why we have a population comparable to Denmark's and Scotland's yet our domestic football league lags behind both of theirs - that's pretty much on topic for this thread.

[peadar1987]

Yeah but I think that the presence of the GAA is the main reason why we have a population comparable to Denmark's and Scotland's yet our domestic football league lags behind both of theirs - that's pretty much on topic for this thread.

I think the presence, and aggressiveness, of the GAA is a major factor (as popular as handball is in Denmark, I doubt the handball association has an official policy of institutional hatred towards other sports), but for me, the biggest one is still the fact that Ireland is pretty much England junior. Our TV programmes, our music, our food, our celebrity-obsessed culture, even, increasingly, the way we talk, all have to be the exact same as our bosses across the water. And the same goes for our football league. If it doesn't work the same way as in England, the Irish public won't be interested.

[mypost]

Irish people don't want to be English, they want to be and live like Americans.

[peadar1987]

Irish people don't want to be English, they want to be and live like Americans.

Well, there is the enthusiasm for voting in idiot politicians on soundbites and non-issues, and not caring if the country as a whole goes down the ****ter so long as they can keep their 60" plasma TV, and burn their skin to a crisp in the Canaries twice a year. America, or more precissely, peoples' perception of America, is a huge black hole sucking in the English-speaking world.

[born2bwild]

I think the presence, and aggressiveness, of the GAA is a major factor (as popular as handball is in Denmark, I doubt the handball association has an official policy of institutional hatred towards other sports), but for me, the biggest one is still the fact that Ireland is pretty much England junior. Our TV programmes, our music, our food, our celebrity-obsessed culture, even, increasingly, the way we talk, all have to be the exact same as our bosses across the water. And the same goes for our football league. If it doesn't work the same way as in England, the Irish public won't be interested.

A complete contradiction. You criticise the GAA yet you share their Anglophobia.

[peadar1987]

A complete contradiction. You criticise the GAA yet you share their Anglophobia.

Not at all. I am actually half English myself. My problem is with people who seem not to choose or reject these things based on their merits, but who will follow them simply because they're big and shiny and English. The people who refuse to consider that there could be any sort of attraction or excitement in a football league not run along Sky model lines are a perfect example.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's clearly not a lack of interest in soccer on the island. The problem is that it's not directed towards the domestic teams.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

In fairness the only way we can compare the GAA lads as athletes is when they play the Aussies, and they get destroyed, and the lads from OZ never send their best players, I know there pro as opposed to the amateur Irish but they are still more often than not outclassed

Did we not win the last two series v Australia? We certainly don't get destroyed.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Not at all. I am actually half English myself. My problem is with people who seem not to choose or reject these things based on their merits, but who will follow them simply because they're big and shiny and English. The people who refuse to consider that there could be any sort of attraction or excitement in a football league not run along Sky model lines are a perfect example.

It's a shame the FAI didn't strike a deal with SKY like the IFA did. Would that maybe change attitude slightly if someone like SKY was seen to be taking an interest?

[TiocfaidhArmani]

A complete contradiction. You criticise the GAA yet you share their Anglophobia.

Remind me what sporting body invited Queen Elizabeth to their HQ recently? FAI? IRFU? The GAA has changed, you should change with them. Those days are gone.

[BonnieShels]

It's a shame the FAI didn't strike a deal with SKY like the IFA did. Would that maybe change attitude slightly if someone like SKY was seen to be taking an interest?

I've been thinking of this for a while myself. I think it could help however sky would want the international competitive fixtures. I can't see it happening.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

I've been thinking of this for a while myself. I think it could help however sky would want the international competitive fixtures. I can't see it happening.

I think it's something the IFA had written into the contract when they agreed the international team deal, it wasn't something SKY chose to show, but something for the FAI to look into if they haven't already. Do SKY not already have them?

[born2bwild]

Did we not win the last two series v Australia? We certainly don't get destroyed.

'We'? That lot doesn't represent me. Perhaps the exploits of a horde of sweaty farmers and off-duty Gardai has greater resonance in Scotland?

Remind me what sporting body invited Queen Elizabeth to their HQ recently? FAI? IRFU? The GAA has changed, you should change with them. Those days are gone.

Don't believe the hype. The GAA were all open arms to her because they knew she'd be on the first plane out of the country. If they're so open to change why don't they offer to groundshare Croke Park with the FAI on an ongoing basis? The place is idle for months on end and it was paid for with my taxes.

The GAA, like a lot of people in Ireland are only comfortable with 'soccer' at a distance - safely beamed in from across the Irish sea. And that's an institutional prejudice, not necessarily an individual one, which gives me some cause for optimism.

But 'those days' are far from 'gone'.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

'We'? That lot doesn't represent me. Perhaps the exploits of a horde of sweaty farmers and off-duty Gardai has greater resonance in Scotland?

Oh save it, they represent Ireland where you're from. They represent your country whether you like it or not.

Don't believe the hype. The GAA were all open arms to her because they knew she'd be on the first plane out of the country. If they're so open to change why don't they offer to groundshare Croke Park with the FAI on an ongoing basis? The place is idle for months on end and it was paid for with my taxes.

Did the FAI ask? Did the FAI not already have their own plans for a stadium share with the IRFU when they agreed to open up Croke Park? But carry on with your hateful bitterness, it's good for you.

The GAA, like a lot of people in Ireland are only comfortable with 'soccer' at a distance - safely beamed in from across the Irish sea. And that's an institutional prejudice, not necessarily an individual one, which gives me some cause for optimism.

But 'those days' are far from 'gone'.

The GAA don't care about soccer, where is this garbage they actually care about a sport that spectator terms in Ireland is tiny! Get over yourself. The only people I ever see bitter towards another sport is soccer fans, usually bitter LOI fans, like you, against the GAA.

[born2bwild]

Not at all. I am actually half English myself. My problem is with people who seem not to choose or reject these things based on their merits, but who will follow them simply because they're big and shiny and English. The people who refuse to consider that there could be any sort of attraction or excitement in a football league not run along Sky model lines are a perfect example.

I agree with this: although I see no need for the word 'English': 'big' and 'shiny', sure, the bigger and shinier the better. Although, I certainly have no love for Sky that's where the money is.

It's a shame the FAI didn't strike a deal with SKY like the IFA did. Would that maybe change attitude slightly if someone like SKY was seen to be taking an interest?

Excellent idea.

An imaginative and sustained programme in schools would be another one. A schools FAI cup, or schools League of Ireland.

[Straightstory]

'We'? That lot doesn't represent me. Perhaps the exploits of a horde of sweaty farmers and off-duty Gardai has greater resonance in Scotland?



Don't believe the hype. The GAA were all open arms to her because they knew she'd be on the first plane out of the country. If they're so open to change why don't they offer to groundshare Croke Park with the FAI on an ongoing basis? The place is idle for months on end and it was paid for with my taxes.

The GAA, like a lot of people in Ireland are only comfortable with 'soccer' at a distance - safely beamed in from across the Irish sea. And that's an institutional prejudice, not necessarily an individual one, which gives me some cause for optimism.

But 'those days' are far from 'gone'.

Great post! I agree.
On topic of whether GAA players are 'top class athletes':
When we see Barcelona, that is the peak of what football can become - their players are among the very best of millions of players from thousands (maybe millions?) of teams all over the world. The GAA has a tiny group of players to choose from. And (apart, arguably, from the laughable 'Rules' series) can never test themselves against anybody from another country. You simply cannot say that if someone is good at Gaelic football they would also be good at 'soccer'. 'Soccer' is also a more skillful game (the outfield player has to control and propel the ball with his (or her!) body (usually feet or head) instead of simply catching and kicking the ball). Plus, a truly competitive Irish athlete would surely desire to test themselves against the best in the world, and not be content with the insular activity of playing Gaelic Games. (Can you imagine Roy Keane settling for being an inter-county hurler?)

[born2bwild]

Oh save it, they represent Ireland where you're from. They represent your country whether you like it or not.



Did the FAI ask? Did the FAI not already have their own plans for a stadium share with the IRFU when they agreed to open up Croke Park? But carry on with your hateful bitterness, it's good for you.



The GAA don't care about soccer, where is this garbage they actually care about a sport that spectator terms in Ireland is tiny! Get over yourself. The only people I ever see bitter towards another sport is soccer fans, usually bitter LOI fans, like you, against the GAA.

I have more in common with other working class football fans in English cities than I have with the GAA, which is a mostly rural, middle class, Catholic, nationalist, would-be Irish-speaking culture. You obviously know me very well if you think that represents me!

'Hateful bitterness' - been to Ibrox lately?

I don't understand your last paragraph.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Great post! I agree.
On topic of whether GAA players are 'top class athletes':
When we see Barcelona, that is the peak of what football can become - their players are among the very best of millions of players from thousands (maybe millions?) of teams all over the world. The GAA has a tiny group of players to choose from. And (apart, arguably, from the laughable 'Rules' series) can never test themselves against anybody from another country. You simply cannot say that if someone is good at Gaelic football they would also be good at 'soccer'. 'Soccer' is also a more skillful game (the outfield player has to control and propel the ball with his (or her!) body (usually feet or head) instead of simply catching and kicking the ball). Plus, a truly competitive Irish athlete would surely desire to test themselves against the best in the world, and not be content with the insular activity of playing Gaelic Games. (Can you imagine Roy Keane settling for being an inter-county hurler?)

Maybe people just like playing GAA so they play it over soccer. It's not about being a competitive athlete, it's about playing what you enjoy playing as a kid. It's not about not being a competitive athlete. That's laughable.

You can't also say someone is good at soccer so they would be good at GAA. I've seen some great soccer players try their hand at GAA (this was in Scotland) and they were so awful it was funny. I don't get the knockers of GAA, they seem very bitter people sometimes, like it angers people, like on Sunday, there'll be 82,500 at Croke Park when they don't get 2,500 at their big games. Maybe try not be so bitter and learn something from the GAA who have made the most of their regional sports like nobody else could have.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

I have more in common with other working class football fans in English cities than I have with the GAA, which is a mostly rural, middle class, Catholic, nationalist, would-be Irish-speaking culture. You obviously know me very well if you think that represents me!

'Hateful bitterness' - been to Ibrox lately?

I don't understand your last paragraph.

The GAA is mostly middle class? Someone pass me the smelling salts to wake this lad up! It's mostly rural? So is Ireland as a whole mostly rural. Would-be Irish speaking? You need to get out of Dublin more, seriously! Rugby. Now there's a middle class sport. Not all, but mainly it is. Most of the top teams are fee paying schools etc. I can't say the Ireland rugby team don't represent me. Of course they do, whether I like it or not. Ireland is made up of middle class and working class people. There are urban and rural areas. It's Ireland. Some of it might not fall under my category but it's still my country and they're still my people. Such bitterness and polarisation, I feel sorry for such angry bitter people, really I do.

There will be 60,000 Dublin fans at this mostly rural sport the weekend, explain that....

[born2bwild]

Maybe people just like playing GAA so they play it over soccer. It's not about being a competitive athlete, it's about playing what you enjoy playing as a kid. It's not about not being a competitive athlete. That's laughable.

You can't also say someone is good at soccer so they would be good at GAA. I've seen some great soccer players try their hand at GAA (this was in Scotland) and they were so awful it was funny. I don't get the knockers of GAA, they seem very bitter people sometimes, like it angers people, like on Sunday, there'll be 82,500 at Croke Park when they don't get 2,500 at their big games. Maybe try not be so bitter and learn something from the GAA who have made the most of their regional sports like nobody else could have.

What does this 'bitter' thing mean?

I agree there's a lot to learn from the GAA - their marketing is exceptional. But while they have grassroots support around the country that support is part of wider network of power and influence in the country. The GAA is the 'official' sport of the state and the 'plain people of Ireland', not only that, it is a sport that was explicitly anti-English until very recently, and aspects of that prejudice remain in the Media's, the State's and soccer fans' (mostly reflex) neglect and dismissal of the LoI.

They get the most support, great publicity, grants, gear and grounds that the LoI can only dream of. If even 25% of that support was channeled into the development of soccer within 5 years we'd have teams from the LoI destroying Celtic and Rangers on a routine basis in European competition.

What's bitter about pointing to the facts?