Comparison of Irish clubs in Europe versus Scottish clubs in Europe

[Dodge]

Ireland
Played 16
Won 8
Drew 4
Lost 4

Scotland
Played 13
Won 0
Drew 3
Lost 10

Every Scottish team exited at the earliest possible stage. Scotland still has one game to play. Their draws have been at home to English, Danish and Lithuanian opposition. In the knockout competitions, they've lost out to Swedish, French, Norwegian and Lithuanian opposition.

[Mr A]

Skewed by the fact that they enter competitions at later and more difficult stages though..

[Dodge]

Not completely skewed though. Rangers exited competition at same stage as Drogheda. Hibs exited one round earlier than bohs. Queen of the South went out a round before Pats. Motherwell the same round. And Elfsborg, who pats drew with away and beat at home, beat Hibs home and away.

The stats, of course, are meaningless. I just posted them as I saw them elsewhere and thought they were interesting enough.

Wonder does anyone have stats for the non Old Firm Scottish clubs in europe in the last 5/6 years

[pineapple stu]

They're easily gotten on something like bert kassies' site, but they're not dissimilar. Outside the Old Firm (and Aberdeen last year), I think most Scottish sides have struggled to get beyond the First Round. That'd include Gretna being hammered by Derry.

Edit - damn, no-one's biting to Dodge's workload, and I've nothing better to do during lunch.

Exclusing the InterToto, which isn't on the Bert Kassies site -

2007/08
P-W-D-L
Derry - 2-0-1-1
Drogheda - 4-1-2-1
St Pat's - 2-0-1-1

Dunfermline - 2-0-1-1 (lost to a second division Swedish side)
Aberdeen got through the UEFA Cup groups and got knocked out by Bayers.

2006/07
Cork City - 4-1-1-2
Drogheda - 4-2-1-1
Derry - 6-3-2-1

Gretna - 2-0-1-1 (lost to Derry)
Hearts - 6-1-2-3 (beat a Bosnian side before losing to AEK and Sparta Prague in the CL and UEFA Cup respectively)

2005/06
Shels - 4-2-1-1
Longford - 2-1-0-1
Cork - 6-1-2-3

Dundee United - 2-0-2-0 (lost on away goals to MyPa of Finland)
Hibs - 2-0-1-1 (hammered away by Dnipro of Ukraine)

2004/05
Shels - 8-1-4-3
Bohs - 2-0-1-1
Longford - 2-0-0-2

Dunfermline - 2-0-1-1 (lost to an Icelandic side)
Hearts - 6-2-1-3 (made it into but not out of the UEFA Cup group)

[Réiteoir]

Just done a quick totalling using data on the Kassies site.

Since 2000:

Scottish Clubs (minus the Old Firm) - Played 70

Won 19
Drawn 21
Lost 30

The clubs involved:
Aberdeen
Dundee FC
Dundee Utd
Dunfermline
Gretna
Hearts
Hibs
Kilmarnock
Livingston
Motherwell
Queen of the South
St Johnstone

[Billy-Green]

Rangers exited competition at same stage as Drogheda. Hibs exited one round earlier than bohs. Queen of the South went out a round before Pats. Motherwell the same round. And Elfsborg, who pats drew with away and beat at home, beat Hibs home and away.

When i read this i was delighted. This shows that we do really have a great standard of player over here. Hopefully clubs in scotland and england realise this so we can start to demand a higher fee for are players being sold on the cheap

[pineapple stu]

Problem is, most of the players in the league are either out of contract, not being paid or both.

[Billy-Green]

Problem is, most of the players in the league are either out of contract, not being paid or both.

Life just isn't fair

[Dodge]

Problem is, most of the players in the league are either out of contract, not being paid or both.

Good job Scottish football is so well run. No premier club would ever go bust there

I knew the results were all available, I just wanted someone to compile it for me. Cheers pineapple and Reitoir

[Réiteoir]

Good job Scottish football is so well run. No premier club would ever go bust there

Except Gretna of course...

[Dodge]

You get a pass, just, because you may still be celebrating a double but try turning on the sarcasm detector Reitoir

[niallsparky]

Just to be fair, I will point out that Hibs exited the Intertoto at the same stage as us. Not that it changes much.

[Lim till i die]

Good job Scottish football is so well run. No premier club would ever go bust there

Gretna were a freakshow and it's not fair to judge the SPL by their rise and fall.

Realisticly it's light years ahead of the League of Ireland with regards to crowds, facilities, finances blah blah blah

[Réiteoir]

You get a pass, just, because you may still be celebrating a double but try turning on the sarcasm detector Reitoir

np - to be fair I'm still fairly locked from the celebrations on Sunday

Trying gradually to come down...

[Dodge]

Fair cop niall, thought it was different.

Oh and LTID, where the grounds are vastly superior (mainly paid for by UK taxpayer) and the crowds slightly better (non Old Firm obviously), there finances are very much in the same state as ours (only on a bigger scale). Seriously, read up on the problems facing big clubs like Hibs and hearts.

[Lim till i die]

and the crowds slightly better (non Old Firm obviously)

Slightly better??

Come on now Dodge.

there finances are very much in the same state as ours (only on a bigger scale).

Wage cuts nearly all round??

Big clubs going to the wall on an annual basis??

Not being flippant, just genuinely don't know.

[tiktok]

Realisticly it's light years ahead of the League of Ireland with regards to crowds, facilities, finances blah blah blah

...but not in terms of european competition, which is the point of the thread.

The facilities are much better obviously, which contributes IMO directly to the crowds they get, it's something we seriously need to address over here, even small improvements could help.

[Lim till i die]

...but not in terms of european competition, which is the point of the thread.

Using the European exploits of Irish clubs which grossly overspent to achieve said exploits as a barometer for the standard of the League of Ireland is every bit as silly as using Gretna as a barometer for the state of the SPL

Besides, I was responding to a specific point Dodge made, not the title of the thread

[Lim till i die]

The facilities are much better obviously, which contributes IMO directly to the crowds they get,

On the facilities thing.

Is Pittodrie for example, really that much more comfortable for watching a match than Turners Cross is??

[tiktok]

Using the European exploits of Irish clubs which grossly overspent to achieve said exploits as a barometer for the standard of the League of Ireland is every bit as silly as using Gretna as a barometer for the state of the SPL

Cork City's results have, ironically, been brutal in Europe since we started overspending. Back when we were running a tight ship we did much better.

Personally, I think that the SPL -v- LoI arguments are pointless, but it is worth noting that the last two times that Irish and Scottish Clubs have faced each other in direct competition in Europe, the LoI side came out on top.