Not a very eloquent reply. I would think that it is important for a poster that words do not fail him. Try to see the problem from a small clubs perspective who struggle to survive whilst competing with teams who, in effect, have squads of 40 or more players. Discussion is important. Abusive terms like BS helps nobody.Originally Posted by hardcore
Didn't you just post on the conn cup forum that I should be ashamed of myself for putting down people on this?
You are quite right.I apologise, just wanted to make the point without writing out the entire words. So words dont fail me.
So, i refer to your previous post, point by point:
1-The "supply" of teams to the FAI or conn cup is from every division in mayo. If you keep winning, you stay in it.
2-The "standard" of player in prem to div 2? Not a lot of difference in most teams. Some bad players in good SL teams. How does this stop you getting out of the division? Do what everyone else does and work hard and win games. How is this anyone elses problem?
3-The "problem" is not a problem for small clubs, its a challenge.
do you think a ballina/celtic/westport/manulla/erris club membership grew overnight? every club started somewhere. Bangor hibs are only in the mayo league 10 or 12 seasons and they had a season in the top division.
Are they a big club? see also kilmore, killala, achill, conn, crossmolina, etc.....endless list of teams who have been in the top division. It is up to them to stay there, is it not? When they fall away, Is this the fault of the "bigger" clubs?
4-This "system" you refer to? The one "keeping you in your division".
How does any other club get promoted? They win games and go up. Its the same for every club.
Do you think the ML planned a "System"? Ask Kilmore if they feel their is a "system" designed to keep "small" clubs down, when they jumped from div1 trapdoor to SL in 3 games!
5-2nd and 3rd teams - Your club gets 25 registered players next season. What do you do? "sorry guys, go and form your own club"????
what about the guys who want to play for you? (see joe denilsons post on this re players playing for more than 1 team- explains it well.)
6-The "artificially high level"/"Training expertise"/"extra facilities" part was where i aimed my BS comment.
Take all the facilities that these clubs have built/raised funds over the years, off them because your club hasnt got them! What do you recommend? Seriously?
If you had them, you would hand them over?
let other teams train on them?
The "training expertise" - built on a clubs experience. What do you propose? Not to use it because everyone else is falling behind? Would you?
7-Big squads- see point 5.
8-Reserve league- that would be funny. Used to have one many years ago, every team played first-teamers in big games, so going against your original argument. this was the main reason why "B" teams were allowed to enter the league as far as i can remember, and that desicion has eventually led to the current dominance of b teams in the prem division.
To start it again would bring everyone back to where it started!
9-"standard high at all levels" - its up to each team to set and keep the standard. This is no-ones reponsibility but their own, and the ambitions they have.
Hope this clarifies my "BS"
Comments?
didnt care about your spat with 352, just didnt want county team brought into it. im sure you can understand that
Wasnt putting him down, just totally disagreed with his comments. Not personal. As you said, its an opinion forum, not an insulting one. "BS" was my opinion, not meant to be insulting and i apologised for it.
The fact remains Erris and Manulla would struggle badly to stay in premier with any rule change to B teams. Celtic and Westport have far greater squads at their disposal so I would presume that it should not affect their results as much.
I play for a lower league club and i would agree with most of what you are saying except it does not explain the unfairness of a small club playing a promotion or relegation game aginst a B or c team who play players that have played in the Super league most of the season but are signed B or C.You are quite right.
So, i refer to your previous post, point by point:
1-The "supply" of teams to the FAI or conn cup is from every division in mayo. If you keep winning, you stay in it.
2-The "standard" of player in prem to div 2? Not a lot of difference in most teams. Some bad players in good SL teams. How does this stop you getting out of the division? Do what everyone else does and work hard and win games. How is this anyone elses problem?
3-The "problem" is not a problem for small clubs, its a challenge.
do you think a ballina/celtic/westport/manulla/erris club membership grew overnight? every club started somewhere. Bangor hibs are only in the mayo league 10 or 12 seasons and they had a season in the top division.
Are they a big club? see also kilmore, killala, achill, conn, crossmolina, etc.....endless list of teams who have been in the top division. It is up to them to stay there, is it not? When they fall away, Is this the fault of the "bigger" clubs?
4-This "system" you refer to? The one "keeping you in your division".
How does any other club get promoted? They win games and go up. Its the same for every club.
Do you think the ML planned a "System"? Ask Kilmore if they feel their is a "system" designed to keep "small" clubs down, when they jumped from div1 trapdoor to SL in 3 games!
5-2nd and 3rd teams - Your club gets 25 registered players next season. What do you do? "sorry guys, go and form your own club"????
what about the guys who want to play for you? (see joe denilsons post on this re players playing for more than 1 team- explains it well.)
6-The "artificially high level"/"Training expertise"/"extra facilities" part was where i aimed my BS comment.
Take all the facilities that these clubs have built/raised funds over the years, off them because your club hasnt got them! What do you recommend? Seriously?
If you had them, you would hand them over?
let other teams train on them?
The "training expertise" - built on a clubs experience. What do you propose? Not to use it because everyone else is falling behind? Would you?
7-Big squads- see point 5.
8-Reserve league- that would be funny. Used to have one many years ago, every team played first-teamers in big games, so going against your original argument. this was the main reason why "B" teams were allowed to enter the league as far as i can remember, and that desicion has eventually led to the current dominance of b teams in the prem division.
To start it again would bring everyone back to where it started!
9-"standard high at all levels" - its up to each team to set and keep the standard. This is no-ones reponsibility but their own, and the ambitions they have.
Hope this clarifies my "BS"
Comments?
Sport is meant to have fair play at its core, there should be no place for these sort of anomolies in the league, but the M. L. could not care less. What do other leagues do, there has to be a more equal system. Fair play to the big clubs for having such resources but if they have so many players why cant they name each squad at the start and use the squads named not pick and choose as they please. Comments?
This is just an idea and i'm sure i haven't thought it through. But how about players are banned from B/C games for 2 games after their last A/B game.
Go on. Pick holes in it. I await your ridicule.
Get over it! If ur not good enough to make it through, then ur not good enough. Cant blame C or B teams for that, take a look at the quality of ur team...
Not saying we're world beaters but Fahy have made it through to the super league after 7 years in existence...never once looking back and saying we should've been there earlier, maybe we wont last but we aint gonna blame it on the quality of big teams second strings...
Violin & bucket please.
Thanks for apology. Your post has made me see my original post as somewhat of a whine. Fair play to the likes of Manulla and Erris.You are quite right.
So, i refer to your previous post, point by point:
1-The "supply" of teams to the FAI or conn cup is from every division in mayo. If you keep winning, you stay in it.
2-The "standard" of player in prem to div 2? Not a lot of difference in most teams. Some bad players in good SL teams. How does this stop you getting out of the division? Do what everyone else does and work hard and win games. How is this anyone elses problem?
3-The "problem" is not a problem for small clubs, its a challenge.
do you think a ballina/celtic/westport/manulla/erris club membership grew overnight? every club started somewhere. Bangor hibs are only in the mayo league 10 or 12 seasons and they had a season in the top division.
Are they a big club? see also kilmore, killala, achill, conn, crossmolina, etc.....endless list of teams who have been in the top division. It is up to them to stay there, is it not? When they fall away, Is this the fault of the "bigger" clubs?
4-This "system" you refer to? The one "keeping you in your division".
How does any other club get promoted? They win games and go up. Its the same for every club.
Do you think the ML planned a "System"? Ask Kilmore if they feel their is a "system" designed to keep "small" clubs down, when they jumped from div1 trapdoor to SL in 3 games!
5-2nd and 3rd teams - Your club gets 25 registered players next season. What do you do? "sorry guys, go and form your own club"????
what about the guys who want to play for you? (see joe denilsons post on this re players playing for more than 1 team- explains it well.)
6-The "artificially high level"/"Training expertise"/"extra facilities" part was where i aimed my BS comment.
Take all the facilities that these clubs have built/raised funds over the years, off them because your club hasnt got them! What do you recommend? Seriously?
If you had them, you would hand them over?
let other teams train on them?
The "training expertise" - built on a clubs experience. What do you propose? Not to use it because everyone else is falling behind? Would you?
7-Big squads- see point 5.
8-Reserve league- that would be funny. Used to have one many years ago, every team played first-teamers in big games, so going against your original argument. this was the main reason why "B" teams were allowed to enter the league as far as i can remember, and that desicion has eventually led to the current dominance of b teams in the prem division.
To start it again would bring everyone back to where it started!
9-"standard high at all levels" - its up to each team to set and keep the standard. This is no-ones reponsibility but their own, and the ambitions they have.
Hope this clarifies my "BS"
Comments?
The fact remains that A team players are playing in some division 2 matches thereby causing crazy results leading to huge frustration. The other factors such as training facilities, etc.. I agree, should not have been taken into the argument - envy? Maybe?
I still say players playing for two different teams seems wrong.
good point joe. this could be the way forward. better then the way it is. I would put it down to 3 matches. if a lads needs a game from the A team after injury it would give him a chance + 3 game out to push for his place back in the A team.
Award winning stuffViolin & bucket please.
Its official. NO promotion to superleague if b teams finish in top 2 places. Worst decision I have ever heard.
Last edited by the 12 th man; 22/12/2008 at 5:50 PM.
Good news for fahy & kilmore
is there going to be play off for the bottom 3 in super league then
If top two teams in premier are b teams, there is no promotion and no relegation from superleague.Clubs have just been informed of this.
that is bull****. all you have to do is watch the leagues and if you are not in trouble then sit back. who signed off on this rulling?
Why does the league need to sign off on it ?.
how can they pass a rule like this without all clubs agreeing to it? surly there has to be control on this activity. this rule has a knock on affect on all team outside the super league
I really dont know how they came up with it, but clubs outside the super league should stand up and be counted in their opposition to this drivel.
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