Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 19th November 2008 - Friendly

[boovidge]

How can people on the basis of this friendly say we have no hope against Bulgaria who got thrashed by Serbia 6-1?

I must admit to being frustrated by the apparent stubborness of Trap's team selection. I think he underestimates the depth in talent Ireland have.

[back of the net]

And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

im am not saying play both them together jicked
and im not saying gibson or whelan are bad players- but facts are they are not first team players at the moment for their clubs

i agree with you that we have a system and it has worked well BUT we have not yet played any big team with this system

the gibson/whelan partnership has been tried against lesser teams only so far and it has failed

it will be more to the teams benefit to give different players (who are getting first team football at their clubs) more exposure to the international scene than 2 reserve players

garvan and o toole are only examples i am not using specifics - try other players from other positions that are gettin frist team action - thus try different systems

more than likely as the group goes on we are going to be trailing in a game and we may welll need to change the system then - hence give other formations and players a go

[third policeman]

Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2. .

The fact is he chose the system to suit the players he thought he had. He and the rest of his managerial team did not take time to look beyond the obvious options (established squad players and other Premiership players).

The evidence of last night and Cyprus suggests that niether the system nor the current group of midfield players are at all likely to get us results. So what do you suggest we do. Stick with ths system, stick with the same players and hope for the best? I would rather we thought about alternatives and proting players with the technical ability and guile to play at this level.

[OwlsFan]

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

[Sligo Hornet]

I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

No he wsan't, and that strange decision not to play him from the start is why we are in the bottom three!

[DeLorean]

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

I think our major difference comes down to the evaluation of Whelan. I think he's crap, u don't...fair enough. We're obviously low on numbers who have been tried and tested and I felt it was worth trying something else last night as we had nothing to lose really as the Cyprus game was a mess. To be honest I don't think we're good enough for the system he trying to play especially with SReid gone. 5 in midfield I think to try to make up for quality with quantity and maybe have another wee visit to see Stephen Manchester.

[ken foree]

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances" i believe we failed to test their keeper seriously with any of them before our goals. the two goals from the impact subs and the haywire conclusion will give trap enough ammo to forge ahead without consideration to the glaring weaknesses at central midfield. s. reid is definitely a large hole that needs filling, i don't care if it takes two players to fill it, e.g. owen garvan and another. how about this: can we please have a central midfielder who, with his back to the opposition goal, can receive a pass from our back four, turn with one touch, and play a forward pass with his 2nd? shouldn't be too much to ask of supposed international calibre players, regardless of 'systems' or 'roles'.

[DeLorean]

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk...~41474,00.html

Thanks for the heads up!!! I'll check Watford out the next time they're on da box, Carling Cup v Spurs Wed week I believe.

[paul_oshea]

Lads here are the facts:
Shots (on Goal) 14(4) 14(6)
Fouls 8 11
Corner Kicks 9 10
Offsides 4 1
Time of Possession 54% 46%
Yellow Cards 0 0
Red Cards 0 0
Saves 3 2


We had a lot more possession and to be honest i thought we had nearer 60% possession. Had the game finished 2-0 I would probably have been more blunt in my assessment and a bit more trigger happy in my summation. The above stats speak for themselves though, the game was quite evenly matched with us having more possession, which you would expect for a home team(even if poland appeared to be the home team). The difference last night comes down to 2 brilliant finishes from the poles and 1 error from a debutant. I think given could have got closer to the second goal as he was out a bit far but apart from that I would say he was solid. A friend at work here told me that City would be happy to see Dunne leave in January, and he said for Dunne himself he needs a fresh start. I'm not sure that drastic action needs to be taken but their is definitely something on his mind and he has been poor the last couple of months. Hopefully its just a poor spell and the dunnie of old returns sooner rather than later. This leads to O'shea I really think he needs a leader beside him to have a good game much like babb and mcgrath , and with dunne being poor so too was he. Kilbane is poor, and trap should have given someone else a run like delaney or whoever. I thought gibson is a more naturally gifted player than whelan and showed this in a few touches, but whelan did quite well in the last 15 mins or so. They were definitely better than against cyprus but they need to get more stuck in. Can they up it another level against georgia? I'm hoping they can otherwise trap definitely needs to look at his options. Anyway everyone else has given their opinion on individual players so no point regurgitating whats already been said, but at the end of the day we lost because our strongest point during the Trap reign let us down and thats our defence. Hopefully we have the bad game out of the way and can get on with being very solid and leak very little at the back, as thats what Trap said he noticed the most about us before he took over.

Finally, im somewhat with ORA and IFK, and I can see where farbeag and botn are coming from, and id say both have valid points, too often we jump off ship and say this or that fella should be playing and it changes every time. Kunt is not a 90 minute player his biggest asset is as a substitue, an impact one to run round like a dope for 15 - 20 minutes expend all energy and win a few throws, after that period of time he fades and makes more bad than good, that is why he is so good as a sub to bring on, which trap seems to realise. Long showed that he is an actually more adepth player with greater skill than NUNT. SO trap obviouslly sees this in training and other things. I think though that one of garvan, mccann or possibnly otoole should have got a chance tonight just to break them into the international arena. Making out that 2 of the 3 are our savoiurs in the midfield is just plain stupid. THey would be overwhelmed and over-awed.

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.

[paul_oshea]

Again lads a dose of reality is required, 7 points from 9, given the circumstances we found oursevles in and a home is nothing to be writing home about and saying everything is hunky dory because it isn't. But no point in going to the other extreme either. I think had we played georgia at home we would have drawn against them and be only 5 points.

[Wolfie]

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.

[paul_oshea]

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

Good post jicked. Smack of realism there.

[OneRedArmy]

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.

Spot on.

I would add that not only can we afford Duffs wastefulness in front of goal, Trapps tactics rely on us being absolutely tight at the back.

Thats why what happened at the back last night is way more important to our qualification hopes than what happened further up the field.

[eirebhoy]

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.

Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.

[Maroon 7]

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances"

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

[paul_oshea]

Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.

sorry I was on about chelsea this year and in the fa cup last year at turf moor against arsenal(i think) i know it was a bad sunday day anyway!

[DeLorean]

And we think we have problems....

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...523960,00.html

[ken foree]

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

we never forced their keeper into a serious save (i remember a doyle snapshot) and they shoulda been 3-0 up by the time we clawed something back late on. they were dominant as their play had far more cohesion, quality and (not least) style, no matter what our number of sporadic chances that fell to duff. non-stats-wise they simply outclassed us. i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry.

[paul_oshea]

berbatov does seem like a bit of a sulk to be honest. spose lots of continentals seem like that though!

[lankyboy26]

I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??

a point away to montenegro is nothing to be proud of lads. if we'd been more positive and had andy reid playing we'd have beaten them. italy are a poor side in my opinion, they have no strikers and their defence is very questionable. if we had a full strength first 11 at home we should beat them. lets be bloody positive about things. we have the potential to win this group if the manager picks the right players. given, kilbane, dunne, o shea, finnan (excellent defence), andy reid, steven reid, mcgeady, duff, doyle and keane up front. best starting 11 of any of the teams in our group. bulgaria are a nothing side