Economic Recovery

**pete** · 26/01/2009, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Battery died on my player, but I believe the social partners are still yet to see this mythical plan. It seems their policy is to just see what IBEC and ICTU can come up with and then just referee the fight

Would not be surprised. Leadership is a dirty word in the current government.

**hula4** · 26/01/2009, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Something will be done, but basic pay won't be touched. Will be fun to see them try and implement overtime cuts in hospitals, prisons and the cops though.

it will be fun alright, and i hope it wont come to pass. overtime for us has been all but stopped unless in cases that cannot be avoided i.e. court etc, which means i will be lucky to earn 70% of what i did last year and i got my mortgage based on the strength of that.

obviously people think we dont do a whole pile either but i worked nights in dublin city centre the weekend just gone and due to not being able to get people in on overtime we were genuinely stretched very thin on a weekend that would normally not have been that busy.

im not trying to play the poor mouth but its looking like the way things will go we will be working harder for less money if these pay cuts come in.

we have already given up on the pay increase that was due to be 6% over the next 2 years and if we get a 5% reduction as well there will be serious opposition to it

**pete** · 02/04/2009, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by ThunderThighs

The next boom,mid 2012 for a bold guess,a boom which will reach its peak in 2014,and slow down in 2016

Bold prediction. Want to predict what will create the boom? As far as I can make the last 2 have been Dot.Com & Property.

**OneRedArmy** · 03/04/2009, 6:46 AM

How can a boom be sustainable? Didn't we just learn the folly of that?

**Poor Student** · 04/04/2009, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by ThunderThighs

I would have to say this:

The worst of it to continue through 2009
Slow recovery beginning in early 2010,which will speed up a bit nearing the end of 2010.

The next boom,mid 2012 for a bold guess,a boom which will reach its peak in 2014,and slow down in 2016

Based on what? That seems to be pure random speculation on your part.

**Dodge** · 14/04/2009, 9:51 AM

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b946536-2...nclick_check=1

Peter Sutherland argues that the Irish economy isn't in as bad a shape as is being reported

**NeilMcD** · 14/04/2009, 9:28 PM

Seems to me that he was probably one of the people who influenced and advised Lenihan.

**OneRedArmy** · 14/04/2009, 9:34 PM

Sutherland is one of the few Irish businessmen left with international credibility (Niall Fitzgerald is another). He's definitely worth listening to (not to say that you have to agree with him). He has an unbelievable CV.

Never mind Lenihan listening to him, put him in his job!!

**dahamsta** · 14/04/2009, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

He has an unbelievable CV.

So does Bertie Ahern. Un-bloody-believable.

**Sheridan** · 15/04/2009, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Sutherland is one of the few Irish businessmen left with international credibility (Niall Fitzgerald is another). He's definitely worth listening to (not to say that you have to agree with him). He has an unbelievable CV.

Never mind Lenihan listening to him, put him in his job!!

I'm beginning to wonder if Planet D4 is actually in this universe.

**Macy** · 15/04/2009, 8:25 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Sutherland is one of the few Irish businessmen left with international credibility

I thought he was under pressure in the UK after "overseeing" Fred the Shreds reign as a non-exec director of RBS?

**pete** · 15/04/2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Sutherland is one of the few Irish businessmen left with international credibility (Niall Fitzgerald is another). He's definitely worth listening to (not to say that you have to agree with him). He has an unbelievable CV.

I agree. Overall one of the few high ranking internationla irish business people.

It would seem one of the strengths of the Presidential format of government is that you get to recruit the best people for the jobs instead of beinbg stuck with Dept of Finance drones.

**Macy** · 15/04/2009, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I agree. Overall one of the few high ranking internationla irish business people.

It would seem one of the strengths of the Presidential format of government is that you get to recruit the best people for the jobs instead of beinbg stuck with Dept of Finance drones.

Part of the reason we're in this mess is because too many vested interests at the heart of Government, between Builders, developers and healthcare privateers. We don't need more that are part of even more insidious groups like Bilderberg.

**Sheridan** · 15/04/2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I agree. Overall one of the few high ranking internationla irish business people.

It would seem one of the strengths of the Presidential format of government is that you get to recruit the best people for the jobs instead of beinbg stuck with Dept of Finance drones.

Have a look at the Senate to see how highly-qualified government appointees are...

**pete** · 15/04/2009, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Have a look at the Senate to see how highly-qualified government appointees are...

I am not talking about politicians. I am not saying it is perfect by any means but in the US they can appoint experts in their field for say 2 years who have already made their money in the private sector. For example: If the head of say the Dept of Finance was useless could the Minister remove him? Surely if the Minister has the same advisors who helped him create the mess advising him (I am not absolving politicians for the mess) how to get out of it it does not suggest a successful outcome.

**Sheridan** · 15/04/2009, 1:42 PM

People who made their money in the private sector are at least as culpable for the current mess as those in government, I think we've handed them enough money and power via the bailouts as it is. Wealth != expertise.

**Macy** · 15/04/2009, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I am not talking about politicians.

The Taoiseach already has 11 nominee's to the senate, and he can nominate two of those to cabinet (except a T�naiste or as Minister for Finance). FF chose to waste them on failed polticians, future party prospects, and in the case of Harris, as payback to INM.

**OneRedArmy** · 15/04/2009, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Sutherland is one of the few Irish businessmen left with international credibility (Niall Fitzgerald is another). He's definitely worth listening to (not to say that you have to agree with him). He has an unbelievable CV.

Never mind Lenihan listening to him, put him in his job!!

Originally Posted by Sheridan

I'm beginning to wonder if Planet D4 is actually in this universe.

Originally Posted by Macy

I thought he was under pressure in the UK after "overseeing" Fred the Shreds reign as a non-exec director of RBS?

Originally Posted by Sheridan

People who made their money in the private sector are at least as culpable for the current mess as those in government, I think we've handed them enough money and power via the bailouts as it is. Wealth != expertise.

In fairness to Sutherland, he isn't some fly-by-night property developer.

Yes, his has a history in big oil and investment banking, but he was Attorney General in his 30s and is an advisor to the Vatican and the UN.

Nobody is perfect, but compared to the incumbents and what else is out there, he's streets ahead intellectually.

**Macy** · 16/04/2009, 7:47 AM

Morning Ireland discussing how Sutherlands reputation has been damaged by being on the RBS & Goldman Sachs boards, and that his days at BP are numbered (even if he survives todays AGM). He's up to his oxters in the whole financial system, not the type of person we should be hooking up with now.

Edit - He's just been described as "shoddy goods" by someone from the torygraph

**OneRedArmy** · 16/04/2009, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Morning Ireland discussing how Sutherlands reputation has been damaged by being on the RBS & Goldman Sachs boards, and that his days at BP are numbered (even if he survives todays AGM). He's up to his oxters in the whole financial system, not the type of person we should be hooking up with now.

Edit - He's just been described as "shoddy goods" by someone from the torygraph

Are you arguing he's worse than the incumbents? Brave statement.

If you disallow everyone involved in a meaningful way in the financial system you have an immediate practical challenge of who manages and leads going forward.

Some people seem to think the answer lies in appointing career academics, however in my experience many are academics precisely because they can't manage and lack effective team dynamics.

Who would you appoint to run the banks and the regulatory bodies?