Irish in England

[John83]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
That has to do with the large number of Irish Catholics who played for Everton in the forties, fifties and early sixties...

Thanks for the info.

[Paddy Ramone]

No problem.

[lopez]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
btw I see you never mentioned any players from the North but I assume you dont class them as Irishmen

Hit the nail right on the head there mate!

Originally posted by tiktok
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.

If we take an interest in Ireland, its history and its present political situation, we are misty - eyed guinness suppers dreaming of Sean Thornton and Squire Danaher having yet another scrap about Mary Kate's dowery. If we are into Bob Marley, Bishop's Finger and Eatenders, then it proves we're just not REALLY Irish.

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
I didn't mention Norn Irish players purely because Anton Rogan slipped my mind, as I'm sure he would slip most people's minds. Hld my hands up about Neil Lennon. Perhaps in Banagher and Laaaaandaaaaaaaan these things have deep political significance.

So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.

An Irishman who recently had death threats made against him by loyalists and is forced out of the NI international team because he is from the north of Ireland and plays for the "Catholic" club Celtic slipped your mind huh?,,,,perhaps in your part of the world these things have no deep political meaning.

keep taking the laughing gas

[Macy]

Moved to general football..... More about scouse football than anything (and I'm not having that in a forum I'm moderating )....

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Hey, Biffo's back. Did you all stand for the Queen Mum at Celtic. Did it make you feel all Irish and proud? How could us non-Celtic fans possibly be as Irish as you? From the heart of that republican bastion...Offaly

Now now Conor, this is descending into playground slanging and I'm not sure that's going to achieve anything apart from setting board users squarely against each other. Especially when a common cause has brought us here together in the first place. Or do you want to start the Civil War all over again? Bloody Kerry rabblerousers... (FWIW, we didn't stand that day. It was a matter of some unease among the supporters that a minute's silence was held at all. But I digress.)

And, for another thing, I don't particularly appreciate the use of the term "plastic" in the pejorative sense. See below.

Originally posted by liam88
I'm not into this whole 'Plastic Paddy' label so it's nice to see most of you respecting me for who I am I could have just as easily told you I live in Cork and you would have accepted me so don't think of me as any less Irish because I live in England-it's where you're loyalties lie and mine are firmly in Ireland.
Might be hard for some of you to treat me as Irish and I fully repect that because living all your life in Ireland you may easily view me as less Irish than you but PLEASE don't write any of us off as 'Plastic'.

Liam, ditch the victim mentality. As I keep stressing hereabouts, to be a "plastic" is not to be inferior or second class. As the song says, there are "forty shades of green". I know myself to be Irish, whatever anyone else says, and I would urge you to see it the same way. Diversity is strength. Revel in it. I know I do.

Originally posted by BanagherOK
Not at all Connor you just sound like a Hun,

Banagher, you sound like a fud. Some impression of Celtic fans you're giving with an approach like that. It rather reminds me of George W Bush's "if you're not for us, you're against us". Which is crap of the first order. Get used to it - there are some Irish people who do not like Celtic. Entirely their prerogative, and to call their background/allegiances into question as a result is childish. End of story.

PP

[lopez]

Originally posted by Conor74
So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.

What British team is that? Sounds like from one of your posts on the equally mundane 'when is an irish man an irish man' thread that it is you who likes watching British football. To remind you this was the one where in contrast to your loathing of Celtic fans, you took time out to criticise my aversion to England supporters, the poor misjudged dears.

The last league game I went to where I supported any English side was Arsenal against Man U in the autumn of 1981, when I was 15. It was the game where Frank Stapleton got a load of abuse, some of it anti-Irish, from the home support. I began to think English football was mierda then, and still do.

Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
All points taken, PP. Guess I overreacted to some gob****e calling me a "hun" because I don't share his football views.
.

Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by lopez
Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?

Excellent point

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker

Like I said before, this kind of ****e is embarrassing. The man disagrees with you, as is his prerogative. Calling him a 'hun' does little for the reputation of Celtic fans as a whole. Disagree by all means, but choose your comebacks more carefully. Time for a little growing up.

For the benefit of anyone reading one of my earlier posts (in which I tried to defend our friend here), I'd like to point out for the record that my auld fella comes from just over the Galway side of Banagher bridge...

PP

[nlgbbbblth]

Originally posted by Conor74
You're making a point about an argument I've never made. How come Ireland spawned these people? Without being too vulgar, I would have thought it was because they popped out of their mother's womb in this country, and that's precisely how Ireland spawned them. Why they were put here is a question that could keep you, I and a host of theologians and philosophers on here for days.

BTW if Biffo Banagher was backing me up I'd start questioning my own judgement. His logic is that if he repeats the insult and puts it in capitals, he's made a great point. That might constitute wit amongst Offaly's Celtic FC hordes, but I suspect that "Keeping Up Appearances" and "Bull Island" would keep that lot amused. It's exactly why the rest of the country calls them Biffos to begin with.

I have no real difficulty with where people were born. It's when one person calls me a "hun" for not loving Celtic, and you pat his head, that I start objecting. Noone has the right to claim they are more Irish than me, and I certainly won't tolerate the "hun" jibes.

well said Conor

I speak some Irish, have been born and lived in Ireland all my life, consider people living in Northern Ireland as Irish, support an Irish league club as well as a Premiership club [Man City], listen to Irish traditional music

Yet I don't support Celtic nor do I support Rangers - both are fine as teams but are ruined by their significant percentage of sectarian and bigoted supporters - and you Banagher are one of these.

You my BIFFO friend probably considered those people who came out and cheered St Patricks Athletic [an Irish club, made up of predominately Irish players, who play in Ireland] against your beloved Celtic [a foreign club despite what you say] - as huns

I hold my hand up and say I support a Premiership club - who make no bones about the fact that they are English - but then again I don't have a problem with most England or English people.

And I'll be cheering on Man Utd tomorrow night against Rangers -and if they were playing Celtic I'd do the same. There's only two teams I support the red scum against and both are from Glasgow, - one group of fans think they're English, the other Irish.

cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments

[lopez]

Originally posted by Conor74
You're making a point about an argument I've never made. How come Ireland spawned these people? Without being too vulgar, I would have thought it was because they popped out of their mother's womb in this country, and that's precisely how Ireland spawned them. Why they were put here is a question that could keep you, I and a host of theologians and philosophers on here for days.

And that is your answer?

An argument you never made? Start questioning anyone's Irishness because they were born abroad, calling them plastics, and you have an argument with me. The reason that these four chaps were born in Ireland but clearly threw their lot in with the country's imperial occupier is that they were of the occupier's ethnicity. Pretty simple! Not one Irish name. All Anglican. Indeed look at their biographies and time and again the word 'ascendancy' crops up. The point is that being born in Ireland, even in republican Kerry, means **** all, just as being born in Britain did not mean that us 'plastics' are British. If anyone is looking for the automatic right to be Irish merely on account of an Irish birthplace, they can look elsewhere for it as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding Celtic, I'm not one of the club's greatest fans, but it is not because it lacks Irish roots, and I have no problem with the description of it as an 'Irish' club. Founded by the Irish, for the Irish and 115 years later, supported mostly by people of Irish descent. Oh yes, a Scottish club definitely: No room for discussion on that point!

As I said before, you just can't win with some people, even when it comes to showing just a little bit of respect to a dead lady, even - if I may speak ill of the dead - one that spent most of her life like the matriarchal head of some dysfunctional sink estate family, but being paid well for the pleasure. Stand in silence and show a bit of respect and Celtic fans are Brits. Sit down, boo and generally show oneself up in an ignorant manner, and once again they are trying to be 'more Irish than the Irish themselves.'

[lopez]

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments

I could say the same about you. Instead of wasting time on this site, sit down and read the history of your country...especially the bit about EMIGRATION (am I allowed to say that here?)

[Duncan Gardner]

Evening Senor Lope. I see ye're having a pop at the Methodists above. Er, carry on

Perhaps you should tell the other readers about our recent conversation. During which you suggested that NI fans (as exemplified by footie's oppo, http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk ), show something of an obsession with side issues like identity? Seems they're not alone...

I think the popular football club Glasgow Celtic will beat Anderlecht and Lyon to at least second phase in their group. They were well impressive against the French.

I'm from Duncairn Gardens, a bucolic verdant retreat on the pleasant slopes of Belfast's Cave Hill, not that it's an issue like.

[London Irish]

well said. If anyone wants to know what being Irish means than get yourself along to an Ireland away game (rather than watch it in the pub). You'll meet lads from all over the place and for 99.999999999% of them accent will be irreleavant.

All will have their own little part of the Irish story to tell.

[nlgbbbblth]

The Luck of the Irish
John Lennon & Yoko Ono

If you had the luck of the Irish
You'd be sorry and wish you were dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you'd wish you was English instead!

A thousand years of torture and hunger
Drove the people away from their land
A land full of beauty and wonder
Was raped by the British brigands! Goddamn! Goddamn!

If you could keep voices like flowers
There'd be shamrock all over the world
If you could drink dreams like Irish streams
Then the world would be high as the mountain of morn

In the 'Pool they told us the story
How the English divided the land
Of the pain, the death and the glory
And the poets of auld Eireland

If we could make chains with the morning dew
The world would be like Galway Bay
Let's walk over rainbows like leprechauns
The world would be one big Blarney stone

Why the hell are the English there anyway?
As they kill with God on their side
Blame it all on the kids and the IRA
As the b a s t a r d s commit genocide! Aye! Aye! Genocide!

If you had the luck of the Irish
You'd be sorry and wish you was dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you'd wish you was English instead!
Yes you'd wish you was English instead!

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Evening Senor Lope. I see ye're having a pop at the Methodists above. Er, carry on

DG, long time no hear! Was wondering if you had deserted us. Not having a pop at John Wesley's (or his Blue and White army), especially not in the 300th anniversary of his birth - at least not intentionally - just that we can't bring religion into every football club where the Irish have congregated. Always thought you were a Mormon according to DAV's description of your drinking habits.

By the way, I've been meaning to ask you this - and I think this is appropriate considering the topic of conversation (even if we have got sidetracked) - but do you get many 'plastics' following YWC? I mean we get 'plastics' that are qualified to follow YWC; there were English accents in kilts going to Glasgow in February; I've known some English accented Taffs; and of course you don't need to mention the Italians, Turks and the Spanish.

Desperately seeking to swerve away from: 'Celtic are/aren't an Irish club: Discuss.' (We've had 2000 pages already!!)

[Beavis]

Originally posted by London Irish
If anyone wants to know what being Irish means than get yourself along to an Ireland away game (rather than watch it in the pub). You'll meet lads from all over the place and for 99.999999999% of them accent will be irreleavant.

All will have their own little part of the Irish story to tell.

Brilliant.

This thread should end on this.

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
well said Conor

I speak some Irish, have been born and lived in Ireland all my life, consider people living in Northern Ireland as Irish, support an Irish league club as well as a Premiership club [Man City], listen to Irish traditional music

Yet I don't support Celtic nor do I support Rangers - both are fine as teams but are ruined by their significant percentage of sectarian and bigoted supporters - and you Banagher are one of these.

You my BIFFO friend probably considered those people who came out and cheered St Patricks Athletic [an Irish club, made up of predominately Irish players, who play in Ireland] against your beloved Celtic [a foreign club despite what you say] - as huns

I hold my hand up and say I support a Premiership club - who make no bones about the fact that they are English - but then again I don't have a problem with most England or English people.

And I'll be cheering on Man Utd tomorrow night against Rangers -and if they were playing Celtic I'd do the same. There's only two teams I support the red scum against and both are from Glasgow, - one group of fans think they're English, the other Irish.

cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments

I love this argument that keeps getting put forward as a reason for it to be acceptable to support English teams but not Celtic!
It has to be the most idiotic Iv ever come across!

Name me one English team that has the same proportion of ethnic minorities, (black and asian) who attend matches as live in areas sorrounding the grounds which usually are in inner city areas where ethnic minorities make up a significant proportion of the population?

If you can not name me one, and Im fairly confident you wont be able to, will not among the bigger clubs which are generally from larger urban areas, then please give me your reasons why you think this is the case?

[BanagherOK!]

Originally posted by Conor74
I have no real difficulty with where people were born. It's when one person calls me a "hun" for not loving Celtic, and you pat his head, that I start objecting. Noone has the right to claim they are more Irish than me, and I certainly won't tolerate the "hun" jibes.

methinks Ive hit a raw nerve here with Connor the Hun,,,its not because you dont love Celtic its because you hate them and thats the difference