Irish in England

[liam88]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to become a regular poster. I was born in England but my relatives come from Cobh (Cork) and from Tipp. I strongly regard myself as Irish and proudly follow the Irish national team, Cobh Ramblers, Cork Hurling and Gaelic football teams and Celtic F.C .
I notice that some people here don't seem to like Celtic but I see it as a great way to support my Irish heritage and still get to see quite a few matches-over here we don't even get Cobh Ramblers RESULTS on t.v let alone any matches
On the Celtic website I found this information,

"Celtic are proud of our Irish roots. The Club flies the Irish Tricolour on Match Days to mark our Irish heritage. Celtic's identity has been shaped as a Scottish Club with Irish roots. Celtic continues to honour this heritage in a variety of ways. Our many Irish fans show that our Irishness is not just something from the past."

I think that this is really great and when I had the honour of coming over to Cork in the summer I was not alone in wearing my Celtic shirt-in the City I saw at least 100 a day and it just seemed the common thing to wearing

So what do you guys think of Celtic and if there are any other Irish living in Britain what do you do about watching you're home team etc.

Thanks,
Liam

[Lionel Hutz]

Welcome aboard Liam.

Expect abuse on this thread for two reasons.......
A. Your a Celtic fan
B. You consider yourself Irish!

At least thats been my experience of this forum since I joined a couple of months ago. Some of the guys on here seem to hold very right wing views as to what constitutes "Irishness" or what teams are exceptable.

BTW Its not everybody who thinks like that!

So dont get to despondent by some of the comments made on here!

Hail Hail

[RiffRaff]

Before I moved to the UK in the 80's, I was scepitcal about "plastic paddies", however since then I've met loads of second and third generation who consider themselves Irish and know a lot more about Irish history and geography etc than most people in Ireland do, so my opinions have changed.
Having said that, I still don't make a connection between Celtic and Ireland. They are a scottish club and I resent the fact the fans of both Celtic and Rangers see fit to sing sectarian songs about a country the majority have never even been to.
If Celtic really want to represent Ireland, whats stopping them - Derry, Cardiff, Swansea, Berwick - they all play in leagues outside their borders. They can play against Monaghan and Kilkenny every other week and if their good enough, represent us in Europe. Alternately they can stay where they are, represnet Scotland and continue to make money and attract fans from a gimmick.

[tricky_colour]

Originally posted by liam88
Hi,
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to become a regular poster. I

<snipped for brevity>
So what do you guys think of Celtic and if there are any other Irish living in Britain what do you do about watching you're home team etc.

Thanks,
Liam

Hi,
I am of Irish parents too (both sides) and born in England
and I could never consider myself English, I love supporting the
Irish national team and I 'see' what games I can, be it on
TV, (usually in a Pub, sometimes in the Bookies, or wherever
it is on) if the worst comes to the worst I listen on an almost
inaudible RTE radio broadcast (not bad on a cloudy day but
on a clear day virtually impossible). Most of the recent matchs
have been 'radio jobs', perhaps fortunately given the results!,
but I would still have liked to see how well [sic] the lads played.
I don't like the term 'plastic paddy' as my blood is as Irish as
that of any man born in and living in Ireland, perhaps more
so.
I don't particularly follow Celtic (I would never get a oppertunity
to watch a Celtic match on TV), plus the Scottish league, like the Irish league is with respect pretty poor.
Irish league matches will never be shown in England anyway.
I do love to watch Premiership matchs which involve Irish players
though so I can 'pick my squad'.
I also follow Nottingham Forest where Andy Reid had an influencial role in the 6:0 thrashing of the abysmal ( 4 points from 13 games ) Wimbledon. He is not always that effective, but when
Reid has a good game Forest win. Who has had a good game
for Ireland rececntly? He got a goal, can tackle, pass and go past players, qualities which have been in rather short supply in the
National side. John Thomson (also at Forest in defence) is another
who I feel could make an impact in the national side.
I was a little surprised when McPhail was in the Irish squad ahead
of Andy Reid, the name you will find on most Forest supporters
shirts. he makes things happen and Ireland need something to
happen!
As for Kerr, well the Jury is out, he hasn't worked any miracles so
far, "early doors" perhaps? I do wonder what a 'proven manager'
at the 'highest level' might have achieved, however I also wonder
if Ireland could get one of this 'rare breed'. I hope the future is
bright. Given Irelands 'limited resources' they have performed
magnificantly in the past, I hope the trend continues.
I don't go in for the negative side of supporting Ireland and I wish
those who do would take their support elsewhere because it
doesn't achieve anything.
Traveling to support Ireland is a little impractical for me.

[Junior]

Originally posted by RiffRaff

Having said that, I still don't make a connection between Celtic and Ireland.

Founded BY the Irish FOR The Irish, theres your connection.

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by tricky_colour
I don't like the term 'plastic paddy' as my blood is as Irish as
that of any man born in and living in Ireland, perhaps more
so.

There's no getting away from it Tricky, we'll never be seen as the full shilling by some. We are Irish, of that there's no doubt, but us 2G and 3Gers are also the product of something more. If you want to treat the term as a pejorative one, then you'll be insulted every time you hear it. And that's the stuff of which shoulder chips are made...

Learn to laugh at it. Roll with the punches. Embrace your Plasticity...

PP - The Cockney Celt

[liam88]

excellent-Great to see i'm being accepted
The way I see it is you're nationality is respect for you're fellow countrymen, respect for the flag, respect for the country.
I have all of these plus an Irish accent :P
Hope I meet lots of new people here-hope Cobh Ramblers get promoted-hope the national team improves.....we'll be there in South Africa ,
Thanx guys,
Liam

[BanagherOK!]

I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic,

btw they are building a statue of a certain Sligo man outside of Celtic Park.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic

Yea quite true actually, I heard recently if you dont vote Sinn Féin you're not Irish either.

Weren't the Wolftones great to come up with our National Anthem?

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by Conor74
you're a funny guy, Banagher, a real funny guy...class...you don't mind if I quote you in future posts on any board as the archetypal Celtic fan, do you?

I thought that was Silvio's job anyway?

Anyway, go easy on him, Conor, he might be related to me (my father is from just outside Banagher and we have family in the town. ). That said, I can't think of any Tims in my family other than meself...

PP

[liam88]

Some of our best national players started at Celitc-Given for example, Miller-young and upcoming.
I don't get anti-Celtic Irish folks-Celtic is far more Irish the Man Utd. or Liverpool and when I turned on a Liverpool match the other day they were singing Fields of Athenry!
Not sure bout voting Sinn Fein...... but let's sitck to footie.

What do you think about Rifles of the I.R.A and Come Out ye Black and Tans being sung at Celtic matches?

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by liam88
when I turned on a Liverpool match the other day they were singing Fields of Athenry!

Listen harder. They've taken the song and adapted it to "The Fields of Anfield Road". It's quite a witty reworking...

PP

---


Outside the Shankly Gates
I heard a Kopite calling :
Shankly they have taken you away
But you left a great eleven
Before you went to heaven
Now it's glory round the Fields of Anfield Road.

Chorus :
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

Outside the Paisley Gates
I heard a Kopite calling
Paisley they have taken you away..
You led the great 11
Back in Rome in 77
And the redmen they are still playing the same way

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

[Macy]

Originally posted by BanagherOK!
I would question the Irishness of any man who claimed to be Irish and was anti Celtic,

LOL..... That's cheered me up on a Monday morning.....

[tiktok]

welcome aboard Liam88, there's been a lot of threads flying back and forth in the last while decrying/supporting celtic and this has split into threads questioning what 'makes' an irishman.
Most of the posters here are proud of their irishness and it's great to see.
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.
When someone says 'we're more irish then the irish themselves' it's often because they've lost sight of what ireland currently is, the culture ex-pats cling to is often that of DeValera, rather than of 21st century ireland.
Having said that, pride in your roots and your country's past is commendable and should be respected, it's a shame your a ramblers fan though

[S.E.P.1990]

Liverpool (for all their orange associations)

Why is it that it is only when i moved to Ireland I started hearing these ridiculous stories of Liverpool and their Orange associations?? I have been told that it was because our founder was an Orangeman, I have been told that KOP stands for King-Over-Pope, i have even been told its because they wear red shirts (??????????). Admittedly we sing a version of The Sash before games, however we also sing the wittily rewritten version of the truely abysmal Fields of Athenry. We also have very strong links to Dublin (sorry Glasgow) Celtic? And, the clincher, Everton play in royal blue (LOL)....

P.S. Do you think we should put the "Do you support Celtic" question on our passport application/citizenship. It would possibly be a cunning way of stopping non-WolfeTone singing, SF supporting, 110% Irish people without appearing too bigoted/racist??? Dammit, i better hand my passport back in now.......

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
That's exactly why. I know Liverpudlians who would never support Liverpool because of their sectarian origins and remember when Liverpool fans used to go on Orange Order marches.

http://www.redandwhitekop.net/print.php?sid=628

Liverpool as a city was hugely sectarian, and still has active orange lodges and marches on the 12th July.... (Reasons to hate scousers number 1029 )

Everton were originally founded as a Catholic parish team.....

[S.E.P.1990]

Because Liverpool has so many Irish people there is bound to be relics of the age-old religious dispute. And to this effect there are Orange Lodges as well as republican clubs etc over there. However this has played no part in defining the two clubs in the city. Liverpool is not a Glasgow situation, it is only people outside the city have tried to split the two teams into a sectarian divide. I never once heard mention of any religious divide (in relation to the football teams) when i was being brought up.

As for the point that people wouldnt support Liverpool cos they are sectarian thats an easy thing to say - but where is the proof?

Surely, at face value (and by the way I dont actually believe this) but Everton with their inability to sign a black player until quite recently should be questioned more....

As for going on Orange Lodge marches I am quite sure that both sets of supporters went on Orange Lodge or Easter Rising marches. I am from a almost 100% Irish Catholic area and they are 90% Liverpool supporters - hardly the type of ppl who go on Orange Lodge marches.

As for the comment about hating scousers cos they have orange lodges - LOL repeatedly. Surely you should hate Glaswegians also cos i am sure they have way, way more lodges than us....

[fergalr]

Originally posted by Macy
Everton were originally founded as a Catholic parish team..... [/B]

At the playoff game at Anfield in 95, I was struck by how most of the locals there supporting Ireland turned out to be Evertonians.

[S.E.P.1990]

these things meant things to people a number of years back. As I said, I knew Irish people who wouldn't dream of suppoorting Liverpool purely because of the sectarian thing. It doesn't make them right or wrong, they just saw Liverpool as being pro-Unionist and Protestant back in the 40s and 50s.

As i said its not an issue in my lifetime and no mention has ever been made of it by anyone. I cant see how 60 years after u can still define two teams in that way.

As for ur point about anybody who knows football knows about the Everton/Liverpool divide - i have been going to Liverpool matches since 1978, my grandfather went to his first game in 1936 and, yet, it is only when I moved to Ireland I hear about a sectarian divide between the two teams. Do u think that, possibly, it wasnt as great a divide as it is liked to make out? Whilst i am obviously aware of a religious divide in the city, and have witnessed Easter marches and 12th July marches never have I heard these being linked to football clubs, whether in the present or the past.

As for the sectarian point - i am still waiting to find out how practically there was sectarianism at Liverpool (or indeed Everton).

P.S. Conor, due to my wonderful employers firewall i cant actually read the link (apologies)

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by fergalr
At the playoff game at Anfield in 95, I was struck by how most of the locals there supporting Ireland turned out to be Evertonians.

Everton have probably the oldest connections with Ireland than other club in England. Val Harris, an ex-Dublin Gaelic Footballer and Wexfordman Billy Lacey were the first Irish professional footballers from outside the North to become successful in England in 1900's when they played at Everton. Everton developed strong connections with Dublin and the Republic of Ireland especially in the 1950's when Eglinton and Farrell played for them. Half their side in the 1950's at one stage were Irish and one of them included an uncle of the Corrs! In fact, far more Irish players have played for Everton than Liverpool. Manchester United are the only English club to have had more Republic of Ireland internationals than the Toffeemen.

Although to say that Everton are a Catholic club would be inaccurate. They were founded by the members of the St Domingo's Methodist Church. Liverpool were founded by an Orangeman John Houlding and their first manager was also an Orangeman John McKenna. Catholics though would traditionally side with Everton rather than Liverpool becase of Everton's Irish connections and Liverpool's Orange links.