I think Duff reiterated last night that himself and Hunt are on two different footballing planets entirely.Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Hunt in Duff's position for the goal last night just wouldn't have had the guile, composure or vision to create that goal.
Don't want to villify anyone - but has to be said - the horrific vision of McShane and Hunt on the same wing last night is the stuff of nightmares.
Quoting years at random since 1975
Ya we mentioned this a few times where he could have controlled the ball down, granted it was near the touchline and a cypriot player was 6 or 7 yards away, and then passed or blasted it forward rather than kicking it out for a throw in, surely a professional footballer who has years of practice etc can contorl the ball when it comes down from the air?
Btw, has McShane played gaelic growing up, my mate was saying it and have to agree he reminds ye of a G.A.A player coming out player soccer for the first time or something, just runs around hard but without much purpose or direction.
I thought yesterdays performance was a step back from the previous two(and i wasn't particularly happy with Montenegro away either) but hopefully that was just down to the absence of Reid....
Finally, what some of you are forgetting is, the only real difference between our results and Bulgarias is they failed to score in Georgia, they took 1 poiint, we took 2, but we played georgia in mainz and it was like a home game. So really only 2 points in the difference and had we played georgia at home we could be in the exact same position. I know though with the last few campaigns its better to get the points in the bag.
whelan isn't that young, gibson is. Whelan is 24 isn't he? He should be getting to the top of his game. Age and inexperience are two completely different things, and so is just not being good enough.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 16/10/2008 at 1:06 PM. Reason: my english is getting worse.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I don't mind people not singing, some people are shy etc, its to be expected. Its the nonces who tell you off for singing I can't stand. I'm in the Cusack Lower and my section is absolute gash - I think Michael McMullen is actually doing the commentary behind me with his wife.
But to whine and jeer at the team when they are retaining possession for more than thirty seconds gets my goat up.
To be honest I'm just waiting to get back to LR. Passed there this morning for the first time in ages and it has progressed a lot. Can't wait.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
A decent start but there will be very little margin for error in this group.
Following Georgia we've a series of head to head's with Italy and Bulgaria - a pattern only broken with the away trip to Cyprus - from March to October 09.
The '95 implosion was a mixture of the sands of time affecting a group of players nearing the end and a major dip in confidence. Paul McGrath spoke about that time and how they could all feel "the confidence just seeped out of the team".
Without being a harbinger of doom - but we'll have to scrap every inch of the way in this campaign.
Quoting years at random since 1975
In the last campaign, if you look at our results against the respective teams, we competed quite manfully and competently against Germany, the Czechs and Slovakia - yet Cyprus were the only team to give us a hiding. They were also the only team to dominate us at home.
Yesterday, as then, they worked extremely hard to close down and isolate our full-backs, forcing errors through pressing and long, diagonal balls. The midfield was completely bypassed, and because of Cyprus' pressure off the ball, Given and our defenders resorted to the long ball too. The midfield was thus bypassed, and the flow/rhythm of the game wasn't helped by an atrocious referee who seemed to whistle for any smidgen of contact. It was a strange game for a central midfielder, in that neither team dominated or played through that area. It's hard to judge if Andy Reid would have made a difference - particularly given how badly he played against the same opposition a year ago. I doubt if we will play against a harder-working team in this group, and I was happy with the result and the amount of chances we created, given the scrappy nature of the contest.
However, if we beat Georgia, it will represent our best start to a qualifying group since Euro 96. If we beat Bulgaria after that, the group becomes a two-horse race between ourselves and Italy. We're in a great position, and I'm happy.
I hope he does. Neil did you think the country lads ran hardest last night?
All this talk about getting better in the future about whelan and stuff, does everyone remember dunnie around 21/22, and how we all thought he was great but lacked concentration/composure etc?! Well, all these players that we have come to fruition who have been class, generally start off that way and have flaws they need to either eradicate or build on, whelan doesn't strike me as one of those players. He does nothing sensational or does nothing to take any note. People saw this yesterday because reid overshadowed it previouslly.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 16/10/2008 at 1:00 PM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
When you say a lot, well can you like say like to where are we ?
Given - 7
McShane - 5
Kilbane - 6
O'Shea - 6
Dunne - 9
Whelan - 4
Gibson - 5
Duff - 8
McGeady - 7
Keane - 7
Doyle - 9
Trapp - 7 for not addressing the hole in the middle of our midfield. This could have cost us...
Happy with the win though
Bring back the plank
doyle was fantastic last night - i couldn't believe how much aerial ball he was winning against two large cypriots at the back.
did anyone else think keane was extremely slow in realising that doyler was winning flick-ons everytime? i dont think anything came of any flick on, despite him doing so well.
doyle then had to revert to taking the ball down and holding it up, which he did excellently, but would liked to have seen a bit more savy from keane in this regard.
thoughts?
[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1041423]I hope he does. Neil did you think the country lads ran hardest last night?
Well I hobbled and I sure you ran pretty hard somewhere so maybe.
In Trap we trust
The last time I was there you could look over the hoardings and see all the work going on, now it looks like they are ready to start the top level. I'm just excira!
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I agree, there was a serious lack of guile/conifdence about the attempts these 3 had. It was like we didnt need to score. I think Trap admitted after the match that the mid field didnt work..He said Gibson didnt use the ability he has, he said he didnt impose himself.....basically bottled it, but at least he did so in a match we won so he wont be hit too hard from all sides. If we had lost he would be feeling a lot worse and thats not good for a young man making his debut.
I though Robbie and Doyle could have came off with 20 to go, for Reid and Folan. They could have just been told to do the exact same, I think Keane and Doyle were knackered, they worked so hard, was great to see but it was unfair on them and the subs not to make a change. I agree with the thoughts of others regarding subs, we should have seen some.
End of the day it is 3 points, so valuable. But a lot to learn from it. I have a feeling Trap is one to learn from his mistakes, he took a chance and got away with it(as opposed to it paying off). I dont think he will do it again. Roll on Georgia
Given 8 - Always reliable when called upon, thankfully not as often as usual tonight!
McShane 5 - dodgy, very dodgy! Always always seems to be a mistake in him. I want to like the guy but he is a mistake waiting to happen.
Dunne 9 - solid in 1st half, defensive mastercalss in second
O'Shea 7 - doing well under Trap, solid
Kilbane 7 - steady as ever
McGeady 6 - some very good moments, frustrating at times
Whelan 7 - solid but not spectacular, more involved than Gibson
Gibson 6 - no major mistakes really, did a job
Duff 8.5 - excellent game looks like he still has it. Memories of old Duffer
Doyle 9.5 - thought he was excellent led the line fantastically and worked so hard, ball retention was fantastic. Looked a class act and deserved a goal.
Keane 7 - quiet game, concentrating on his marker rather than the ball too often, but got a goal and did some good things too.
I do worry when i see people giving Gibson 1 and Whealan 3. Like Dunphy, they are ust trying to be controversial and its bloody annoying. Our central midfield didnt gel as well as hoped but beween both players they are still in single digit caps. Cut them a bit of slack. They did their job. Yes they were both only average but some of the abuse they are getting is frankly annoying. Last night would have been fantastic experience for Gibson and he will be one for the future. Barring a lot of injuries at Old Trafford, he will need a move however. Im still very impressed with the shape of our team and think that with Mcgeady and Duff on the wings and Doyle in that form, we will trouble anyone. Dunne at this moment is irreplacable. Great advantage that he hasnt got a booking yet
I was left unconvinced at the final whistle. Trapp again, failed to use his bench. there was some tired players out there with twenty minutes to go and he should have injected some energy into the side. The central midfield duo was completely incompetent. They didn't seem like they wanted the ball and when they did get the ball they took the ultra cautious approach and passed it back. It was no wonder McGeady lost possession on those occassions when he had an extremely static and over cautious central pairing to help him out.
Another note. Does anyone else find that we score a lot of early goals in matches and this in turn leads to sitting back a lot. I can count numerous times over the last three campaigns where we scored in the first 15-20 minutes and our second half performances deteriorated and we found ourselves on the back foot. Wales, Slovakia, Slovakia, Israel, Israel, Switzerland to name a few. We can score and open up defences but we seem to struggle to keep up momentum.
I think I should the parachute, because I'm great.
In fact, I think I should get both parachutes, in case one doesn't work.
Its the mentality of a lot of players to sit back when you get a lead, its a natural reaction and is something that is very hard to get rid of. Most of those examples you gave, we conceded in them. At least last night we didnt, which can only be viewed as a positive. Really Cyprus had very few clear chances in the game. Of the 5 best chances, 4 of them were Ielands
On both points this is how it will be under Trap, he won't make changes he deems unnecessary in tight games when we're winning and he will sit back on leads. I agree with your second point, I suppose the thing you would hope it that under Trap hopefully more often then not we'll hold onto these leads. How many 1-0 wins do people reckon he must have had in his managerial career by now??!
a lot?
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Doyle:
"I thought Aiden was particularly impressive last night.
"He is a creative player and he was running at them down the right and causing problems, and across the other side of the pitch we have Damien Duff doing the same.
"Obviously it required a good team performance to secure the three points, but I thought those lads were pretty special."
Given:
"Damien, and Aiden McGeady on the other side, were fantastic last night."
As I said in another thread, McGeady has probably set up more clear cut chances in the 3 games so far than the rest of the players combined. Last night I thought he played very well.
No he doesn't, I can assure you of that. It's taken a good while but looks confident playing for Ireland now.
He did a lot more than work hard. He was winning every ball hit up to him. Every kick out was onto his head. His control and link up was excellent. He drove at Cyprus a couple of times. He forced the keeper into an excellent save too. I thought he was immense. He didn't score but Heskey gets praise in a much better team than ours for doing the non-scoring stuff.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 16/10/2008 at 5:49 PM.
Looking at the goal it was ridulous the amount of space Robbie had for the goal, none of the defenders picked him up, there were three marking Doyle, the guy (no 2) marking Keane seemed to have gone to sleep. Pretty shocking stuff, slap bang in the middle of the six yard box, open goal, and not a cypriot in sight!! (and he was of course well onside when the ball was played).
Here's my tupence...
McGeady did fine. He is growing in confidence with Ireland after having a tough time against one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world last year in Czech Rep's Jankaulowski. He should never have been asked to do that, especially away from home.
Last night, he did lose some silly ball but he was continually double-marked. The odd time he was supported by McShane (who was very poor but acting under instruction presumably to sit back), McGeady, correctly, thought better of it and took the responsibility on himself. Duff showed us how much we've missed him. Still tricky and very cute in possession. Top class.
A lot of our attacks were predictable, because the two central midfielders were told to win the ball and feed the wingers. Trap praised Gibson on Tuesday for being able to play the "simple" ball. It was up to Duff and McGeady to bring the invention in from there, which they didn't do a bad job of.
Neither Whelan or Gibson seemed allowed to join the attack late, like, for example, Matt Holland used to. Neither provided (through both capabilities and instruction) the drive like Stephen Reid can do - he's a hugely important player for us and hopefully he'll be back sooner rather than later.
Gibson and Whelan are inexperienced at any level above the Championship as yet. Gibson was the better of the two, but shouldn't be thrown in like that. Whelan maybe tried occasionally the more difficult pass and that didn't work out for him. For the most part, they provided devent cover - totally opposite to the Ireland-Kilbane pairing two years ago.
Support from the two central players would have given another option instead of the wingers crossing for two strikers who aren't the tallest, although Doyle is very competitive in the air and in fairness Robbie got his goal from a header, although it would have been harder to miss.
Keane worked hard coming back, but seems to have lost a yard of pace. When breaking away he looked frantically for an outlet before being happy to hit the floor. He's still as good as we have though, and got the points for us last night. Doyle was excellent and worked tirelessy and held possession well.
Agree with the point on Kilbane waiting too often for ball to drop before dealing with it. He's not a natural header of the ball but would need to improve at that before he gets caught around the back. McShane is rubbish. Whoever said "whatever he lacks in ability, he makes up for in commitment" might be right but it doesn't make him an international footballer.
O'Shea wasn't great but is learning from Dunne and seems better when he doesn't have time to think about things. Dunne and Given, brilliant as always.
Don't know if any particular sub would have improved things, certainly not Hunt. the midfield four knew their jobs and disroptung that might have caused trouble. Taking off Keane might have played into Cypriot hands.
Like almost everyone thinks, I believe if we could put in Finnan and the two Reids for McShane, Gibson and Whelan, it's not a bad team. For me, Stephen Ireland would not improve that team, he'd be in a similar position to Andy Reid, considered a luxury.
McGeady, who I still believe to be a better player than Ireland, is more willing to help out at the back. Ireland may have scored goals for his country, but he always left holes behind him. If he couldn't be bothered playing for Ireland, the so be it. McGeady is dogged at every ground in Scotland and abused every night he takes a drink and remains loyal. Fair play to him I say (that's not a Celtic bias either!)
If there was to be a second goal, we deserved it more than Cyprus did. In Lansdowne in 01 and 04 they were terrible and have improved no end.
There have been some stange results in the qualifying groups around europe (Lithuania in Romania, Luxemburg in Switzerland and Albania in Portugal), so at least we avoided a banana skin.
Wins against Georgia and Bulgaria next spring would be unreal, but with three aways in succession, Italy, Bulgaria and Cyprus, it's plausible we could lose all of them. Cyprus, at full strength will be a serious test. How us and Bulgaria fare in Nicosia will go a long way to deciding things between us.
It's also early days and we all said that we'd take a scrappy 1-0 and that's what we got!
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