Setanta Cup Final

[Dodge]

Dublin on a saturday afternoon at 3/4pm. There is trains from both Cork and Belfast. Its 3-4 hours for both sets of fans and there is also the potential for 1-2 thousand neutrals turning up.

Setanta are never going to have a final on at the time (clashing with their UK football). It has always been saturday night, and will always be a night fixture

[GenerationXI]

Maybe you just meant football stadia but best stadium in the country outside of Croke Park is now Thomond Park.

I'd actually be interested to see it when it's not full of bandwagon jumpers.

[brendy_éire]

A minor thing, but just another stick for people to beat us with in terms of minnowism for these League(s).

Yeah, got that accusation from a few people in work actually. It's a particular ask for Glens fans to travel to Cork when their longest journey of the season is an hour and a half to Derry.
Yes, Cork have travelled a fair bit themselves, but that's only because of geography. It can't be used as a reason to demand hosting a final.
Setanta should have appointed final venues and stick to them. Or else state in the rules that if the finalists are from opposing leagues, on side should have home advantage. Make it offical instead selecting the venue depending on who's in the final.

Agreeing with Pietro that there are some positives. If we're ever to have an AIL, it's the IL fans we need to be convinced. Travel distances are what they fear most. Having them travel to Cork will let the see that it's not that bad a journey, it is do-able. Plus, they should really enjoy Cork, it's a great spot. Maybe the away trip to Cork will seem like much better craic than that away trip to Larne?

IMO though, all finals should be at a neutral venue, including the LC too.

[tiktok]

Yes, Cork have travelled a fair bit themselves, but that's only because of geography. It can't be used as a reason to demand hosting a final.

No-one is demanding we host the final.

We were expecting it would be at TC given the precedent Setanta have set, if it had been in a neutral venue and closer to Glens to keep them happy (seeing as their famour travelling support won't travel 5 hours [mostly on motorway] at the weekend) we'd have gotten over it.

[brendy_éire]

No-one is demanding we host the final.

Sorry, maybe slightly strong a word. I don't think you can use it to justify playing the game at Turners.

[derm]

Sorry, maybe slightly strong a word. I don't think you can use it to justify playing the game at Turners.

Most City fans I know were not expecting it to be at Turner's Cross. But every final between both associations gave home advantage to one of the participants. The fact that this means it's on in Cork should not be a justification for changing it.

Don't expect much sympathy from City fans about travel distances

[brendy_éire]

Don't expect much sympathy from City fans about travel distances

A Dublin final would have been handier for me too. But at least this way I get an excuse for 6th weekend in Cork this year.

[SUB of the day]

Maybe you just meant football stadia but best stadium in the country outside of Croke Park is now Thomond Park.

it says a lot about our sporting infrastructure, that our second best facility is nothing more than a poor mans Mc Alpine(Huddersfields home ground)

[tiktok]

Sorry, maybe slightly strong a word. I don't think you can use it to justify playing the game at Turners.

Sorry brendy, but we're not justifying it either.

We were given the final based on the precedent Setanta have set, the point about travelling is just to highlight how poor the Glens argument actually is, if you sign up to an All-Ireland competition, you have to expect that at some stage you'll have to drive more than an hour for a game.

Is it fair, possibly not, I can understand that.
Was it expected? absolutely, no point Glens pretending it's a great surprise.

[Graemerz]

Sorry brendy, but we're not justifying it either.

We were given the final based on the precedent Setanta have set, the point about travelling is just to highlight how poor the Glens argument actually is, if you sign up to an All-Ireland competition, you have to expect that at some stage you'll have to drive more than an hour for a game.

Is it fair, possibly not, I can understand that.
Was it expected? absolutely, no point Glens pretending it's a great surprise.

True.

And to make matters worse the Glens continue to state how much they are for an All-Ireland League.

[Lux Interior]

True.

And to make matters worse the Glens continue to state how much they are for an All-Ireland League.

I don't think there'd be too much of an uproar if we had to play Cork away in a league game. I mean, fancy that.

Bit different when the team you're facing in a final just happens to play in the ground hosting the match.

Sound familiar, batcave?

[lofty9]

Bit different when the team you're facing in a final just happens to play in the ground hosting the match.

Sound familiar, batcave?

Was wondering who would bring that up!! The old IFA Linfield home advantage.

[dcfcsteve]

Shels v Linfield (played in Tolka)
Cork v Drogs (played in Tolka)
Linfield v Drogs (played in Windsor)
Cork v Glentoran (Played in Turners Cross)

The only Setanta final ever played at a neutral venue was the one where both sides came from the same football association. Otherwise, the location of the final is passed in turns between the two associations.

This is an extremely skewed view of th facts, purely to suit your arguement. It has more holes in it than a pair of old fish net tights.

Lets look at each year's finals :

2005 : Was always scheduled to be held in Tolka (the south’s agreed Setanta final venue). Shels just happened to get there - so it was purely by default, not design, that it wasn't at a neutral venue.

2006 : The final was slated for Windsor (the north’s agreed Setanta final venue). But as two southern teams made the final, it got switched instead to the south's Setanta venue : Tolka. If the Setanta final location is all about non-neutral venues and mythical precedents, then why wasn’t one used this year ?

2007 : After being in Dublin twice already, the Final was owed to Windsor (the north's Setanta venue) so long as a Northern team got there. One did - and it just happened to be Linfield. Again - it was neutral by default, not design. Had it been Glentoran, Dungannon or even Derry in the final it would still have been held at Windsor.

2008 : The Final gets allocated to a non-neutral venue deliberately. Not by default. Can you not see how this is wrong....?!

And your later talk of some sort of mythical 'Setanta precedent' is again just bullsh!t to suit your arguement. The 2000 FAI Cup Final was held at Tolka - which the allocated final venue at that time. Shels just happened to reach the final that year. Did that therefore set a precedent for giving the Final to the home ground of one or other finalist? Did it fcuk. Did Bohs or Longford then demand that the 2001 Final be hosted at one of their grounds because a pre4cedent had been set ? Did they hell (even though Dalymount had hosted the replay the previous year).

The only precedent involved in the Setanta Final is the one that has just been set by deliberately selecting a non-neutral venue. Not only is it unfair and reducing the prestige and standing of the final, I can guarantee you that it will also lead to rows between clubs in future years.

If we'd beaten Linfield in the semi final last season we'd have been heading up to the oval this season. It's that simple.

No you wouldn't. You'd be going to Windsor - the north's allocated Setanta Final venue.

[derm]

Both venues chosen in 2005 & 2007 were home to competitors in the competition. There was always a fairly good chance that the finalists would include the home team given the strengths of the Shels & Linfield. Neither therefore were neutral.

An honest question, would as much a fuss be made of this if Derry had won and the final was in the Brandywell? The decision was made before the game and should have objected to then.

[dcfcsteve]

Both venues chosen in 2005 & 2007 were home to competitors in the competition. There was always a fairly good chance that the finalists would include the home team given the strengths of the Shels & Linfield. Neither therefore were neutral.

Given that there isn't a single neutral football stadium in the country, and Lansdwione and Croker were both either unsuitable or unavailable, some club ground or other was going to have to be used. It is impossible to avoid using a club's stadium in Ireland. That doesn't change anything - and doesn't excuse givbing home advantage for a major final by design, not default. You're clutching at very small straws with very big hands here...

An honest question, would as much a fuss be made of this if Derry had won and the final was in the Brandywell? The decision was made before the game and should have objected to then.

An honest answer - if Derry had won, I'd have wanted the final in Windsor, not the Brandywell. For a whole host of reasons - including prestige and size of crowd.

[derm]

Given that there isn't a single neutral football stadium in the country, and Lansdwione and Croker were both either unsuitable or unavailable, some club ground or other was going to have to be used. It is impossible to avoid using a club's stadium in Ireland. That doesn't change anything - and doesn't excuse givbing home advantage for a major final by design, not default. You're clutching at very small straws with very big hands here...

Oh please. There are plenty of neutral football stadia, i.e any ground whose team is not in the competition. What's lacking is decent stadia that would be able to host the final. There is a further complication regarding travel. Can a stadium be considered neutral if one side has much more support because of shorter distances for the fans to travel, e.g a Dublin team vs a non-Dublin team in Tolka? Should a venue of roughly equal distance from both teams be found?

I'm not clutching at any straws, I think that a finalist playing at home has an unfair advantage, Shels had it, Linfield had it, City will have it. But we're living in the real world here and the competition has not exactly been a resounding success. It would not be helped by a final in a half-empty tolka park which is why the decision was made I'd wager. The Brandywell or the Cross would be full and look better on TV. Real world. Is it fair? No, but neither were the other finals for different reasons.

I hope that the IFA return the favour next year and the LoI representative will be in a venue that promises the highest revenue for the two teams involved. If true neutrality cannot be achieved then revenue should be the key, let's face it all teams need it.

Anyway I wish Glens luck (but not too much) and hope that as many fans can travel as possible and enjoy their trip (but not too much ). I also hope that we can help fill our clubs' coffers and give them a chance for revenge in the Oval next year

An honest answer - if Derry had won, I'd have wanted the final in Windsor, not the Brandywell. For a whole host of reasons - including prestige and size of crowd.

That's a cop-out answer to be fair. Personally I'd also have liked the final in Windsor, or Croker or even Wembley, but none of them were on the table.

I only asked because distance has been mentioned a lot, even more so than the unfairness of home advantage.

[tiktok]

Did Bohs or Longford then demand that the 2001 Final be hosted at one of their grounds because a pre4cedent had been set ? Did they hell (even though Dalymount had hosted the replay the previous year).

Again, when did Cork City demand anything?

Look, I accept your argument on the finals, you seem to know more about it than I do, I just worked off a memory of where the finals were held and the fact (it seems now a coincidence) that where two associations were represented in a final, one team has always had literal home advantage, a neutral venue only being used when both teams came from the same association.

No Cork City fan would have had a problem with travelling to Dublin for this and giving the Glens an advantage in terms of distance, we just would have gotten on with it. I find all the complaining (especially when it seems to be laid at our door and not Setanta's) to be painful in the extreme, if it was just complaint about the final being at a non-neutral venue, I'd nearly put up with it, but a huge amount of it is complaining that they have to travel the length of the Island for an all-ireland competition.

Maybe they should be hanging onto the fact that on the two previous occasions where there was a literal home advantage, the home team lost.

[KianD]

Given that there isn't a single neutral football stadium in the country, and Lansdwione and Croker were both either unsuitable or unavailable

RDS ceased to be?

[fionnsci]

RDS ceased to be?

Keyword: Football.

[brianw82]

Just put it on in Lissywoolen and everyone has an equal distance to travel. Simple.