Andy Reid & Trapp row???

[Stuttgart88]

Im sure they probably did have some sort of a spat but Reid has turned up for duty without any fuss and Trap saw fit to pick him in the squad.

It's like the Stephen Manchester bore-fest all over again. I get the impression half the hacks in the country actually want to manufacture a falling out and a reason to berate the manager. They're never happy unless they've something to moan about. A bit like a lot of the rest of the country I suppose.

Any fool can see our inability to compete in central midfield amplified all the other failings in this team since Keane was at his peak. We may or may not agree with how Trap is going about rectifying this (the mooted replacement of Steven Reid by Miller would baffle & really concern me for example).

However, Whelan sitting deep, making tackles, showing for the ball from his defence and using it reasonably well has been a useful starting point.

For the same reasons Neil pointed out I'd go with Joey O'Brien in CM and I'd probably pick Reid and Duff as the wide men - Duff as a classic winger, Andy Reid in a Pires or Ljungberg like wide midfield role. Reid has been successful in the past for us in this role and, like Eoin Hand pointed out on RTE radio, he really brings the best out in Robbie Keane.

[eirebhoy]

and you know this how exactly?

"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that Keane and Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes."

[Noelys Guitar]

"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that Keane and Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes."

You could here Trap shouting at Brady "tell Andy to get ready" on the TV just after Whelan scored. Then as Trap said himself he changed his mind.

[sligofan4ever]

Even though he had a row atleast he sat on the bench. Unlike Kevin Kuranyi, he walked out of the stadium at half time just ecaused he wasn't going to be playing, now the germany manager wont include in any future games as long as hes in charge.

[brianw82]

Part of me thinks that the papers want to create our own Gerrard/Lampard conundrum.

Unfortunately for them, Trap is too good a coach to allow a ridiculous issue like that to manifest itself. As was mentioned before, the best players don't always make the best team.

[third policeman]

Unfortunately for them, Trap is too good a coach to allow a ridiculous issue like that to manifest itself. As was mentioned before, the best players don't always make the best team.

I think that the overwhelming balance of evidence suggests that the best players usually do make the best team. I am really struggling to bring to mind many examples of where a team have performed consistently better without their best player(s). Trap has brought cohesion and belief to the team that was lacking under Staunton, but we still need quality if we are going to succeed against the better international sides.

[galwayhoop]

I think that the overwhelming balance of evidence suggests that the best players usually do make the best team. I am really struggling to bring to mind many examples of where a team have performed consistently better without their best player(s). Trap has brought cohesion and belief to the team that was lacking under Staunton, but we still need quality if we are going to succeed against the better international sides.

i think what the previous posters' mean is that the perceived 11 best players don't necessilarily make the best team. for example if you have 4 midfielders who like to bomb forward and are excellent attacking players then you are going to lose a lot of tight games as you have no-one doing the donkey work. remember how real madrid fell apart when the great unsung hero Makélélé left.

to my mind there are two routes to go in management, either play players to suit the system or play a system to suit the players. Trap is going with the former. If you have 4 top notch strikers and you usually play with 2 upfront then either you alter your whole team of you leave two of your best players on the bench - ergo the best players don't necessilarly make the best team.

Trap is on record numerous times that our midfield is far too offensive, therefore he wants two holding central midfield players allowing us to play with 2 strikers and two wingers. while i definetly wouldn't describe andy reid as a combative midfield player i most certainly wouldn't call liam miller one either. but perhaps by reid making his displeasure known he has put trap in a situation whereby it may be seen as the tail wagging the dog if he started.

[Claret Murph]

[QUOTE=galwayhoop;1039458]while i definetly wouldn't describe andy reid as a combative midfield player i most certainly wouldn't call liam miller one either. QUOTE]

Now what I would call Miller would get me banded for this site ......

[ifk101]

If this row happened in Germany (a month ago), why are journalists only reporting on it now?

I also heard Roy Curtis' interview with rte. Didn't know who he was prior to the interview but I now know he's a fool and obviously suited to the Sunday World.

If we drop points against Cyprus there's reason to question Andy Reid's involvement or non-involvement in the starting 11. But up to now I think we have looked a much better side than what we witnessed under Staunton. Trapattoni deserves all credit for firstly coaching and secondly organising our players into a coherent whole. I trust in Trapattoni's reasoning and knowledge of the game. If he choses to start Miller ahead of Andy Reid, I believe he's making the correct the decision. Look at JOSH for example. Rubbish under Staunton but on the verge of becoming a good player under Trapattoni. This shows that Trapattoni is capable of bringing the best out of players and hopefully Miller, if he starts, can repay Trapattoni's faith in him.

[paul_oshea]

Im sure they probably did have some sort of a spat but Reid has turned up for duty without any fuss and Trap saw fit to pick him in the squad.

It's like the Stephen Manchester bore-fest all over again. I get the impression half the hacks in the country actually want to manufacture a falling out and a reason to berate the manager. They're never happy unless they've something to moan about. A bit like a lot of the rest of the country I suppose.

Any fool can see our inability to compete in central midfield amplified all the other failings in this team since Keane was at his peak. We may or may not agree with how Trap is going about rectifying this (the mooted replacement of Steven Reid by Miller would baffle & really concern me for example).

However, Whelan sitting deep, making tackles, showing for the ball from his defence and using it reasonably well has been a useful starting point.

For the same reasons Neil pointed out I'd go with Joey O'Brien in CM and I'd probably pick Reid and Duff as the wide men - Duff as a classic winger, Andy Reid in a Pires or Ljungberg like wide midfield role. Reid has been successful in the past for us in this role and, like Eoin Hand pointed out on RTE radio, he really brings the best out in Robbie Keane.

I don't think its a case of they "aren't happy unless they have something to moan about" rather a case of "unless they have something to write about", there are so many of them out there now that they cant find anything new to write and therefore need some juicy goss, the public seem to love the nosey stories nowadays.

[Duggie]

If this row happened in Germany (a month ago), why are journalists only reporting on it now?

I also heard Roy Curtis' interview with rte. Didn't know who he was prior to the interview but I now know he's a fool and obviously suited to the Sunday World.

If we drop points against Cyprus there's reason to question Andy Reid's involvement or non-involvement in the starting 11. But up to now I think we have looked a much better side than what we witnessed under Staunton. Trapattoni deserves all credit for firstly coaching and secondly organising our players into a coherent whole. I trust in Trapattoni's reasoning and knowledge of the game. If he choses to start Miller ahead of Andy Reid, I believe he's making the correct the decision. Look at JOSH for example. Rubbish under Staunton but on the verge of becoming a good player under Trapattoni. This shows that Trapattoni is capable of bringing the best out of players and hopefully Miller, if he starts, can repay Trapattoni's faith in him.

hes a serious w**nker and shouldnt be let voice his s**te opinions.

[tetsujin1979]

If this row happened in Germany (a month ago), why are journalists only reporting on it now?

just a guess, but releasing the story now means it gets major coverage, releasing it a month ago and it would have been lost among the post game reviews and interviews.

[ifk101]

just a guess, but releasing the story now means it gets major coverage, releasing it a month ago and it would have been lost among the post game reviews and interviews.

Yes. But if it was a row (in the sense I understand the word "row" to mean), this would have been a big news story regardless.

[geysir]

I don't think its a case of they "aren't happy unless they have something to moan about" rather a case of "unless they have something to write about", there are so many of them out there now that they cant find anything new to write and therefore need some juicy goss, the public seem to love the nosey stories nowadays.

That's the tabloid justification for presenting gossip as fact.

Sloppy CM has been a weak area. I am content that Trap looks at how the team play as a unit. He will bring on Andy Reid if he feels the team need him.

Sound very much like Charlton and Brady all over again but Brady found a way to adapt and still be Brady.

[Thebolg]

we saw fabregas and robben left out of the spain and holland teams in the euros.

didnt work out too badly for the spanish and when fabregas did come on he was able to make a huge impact.

sometimes the best players only make the best team in the right circumstances. our central midfield is very weak defensively and we need two holding players to shore up the gaps.

i would have reid ahead of mcgeady or hunt on the wing but not in the center.

[Noelys Guitar]

People should remember that Reid was dropped by Sunderland after the 3-0 home defeat by Man City. In the next 5 games for his club he started 2 and came off the bench for one other. I like Reid and believe he should be starting against Cyprus but I can understand why Trap is not picking him. I don't believe for a second it has anything to do with any 'row" but is purely a tactical decision. He wants a player who can go box to box and due to the injury to S.Reid sees Miller as the best option available. Hopefully Miller will do a Glen Whelan and not only score but put in a big performance.

[dr_peepee]

we saw fabregas and robben left out of the spain and holland teams in the euros.
.

I think Robben was just coming back from fitness, but it's a good point.

[stojkovic]

we saw fabregas and robben left out of the spain and holland teams in the euros.

Fabregas was left out because he is not as good as Silva-Xavi-Iniesta at the moment. In a year or two he will be first choice. He is still only 20.

[Thebolg]

Fabregas was left out because he is not as good as Silva-Xavi-Iniesta at the moment. In a year or two he will be first choice. He is still only 20.

as an attacking / creative player i believe him to be better than almost anyone in the game.

however as an all round central midfielder he may not be which was my point entirely.

[Reality Bites]

James Lawton is a Fine Writer with some good points -makes Dunphy look like a Baboon


By James Lawton


Friday October 17 2008

So who was the winner? The grizzled old coach who seems to have been part of the furniture of football forever? Or the brooding, under-achieving Andy Reid, who many in Croke Park believed might have brought a superior passing touch to the task of subduing a failed, but still menacing, Cypriot revival in the second half?

You could argue it until dawn and achieve no more than a languid, world-weary yawn from Giovanni Trapattoni.

It is the difference between an old football man who needs the reassurance of popular approval about as pressingly as an arthritic twinge and such predecessors as Steve Staunton and Brian Kerr.

Trapattoni picked the kid from nowhere, if it is possible to say that of someone who does happen to be on the payroll of Manchester United, for reasons that he will never feel obliged to explain too explicitly.

What, after all, is the point of hitting your 70th year while attempting to renovate a desperately under-achieving, and poorly led, national football team, and then surrender an aura of command and mystery which you have spent most of your life building?

Trapattoni's preference for Darron Gibson, a veteran of some fleeting Carling Cup experience, over Reid was plainly not an obvious move. But then, of course, you don't pay a Trapattoni to replicate the thinking on the terraces or in the bar or, in some cases, the TV studio. You pay him to measure the mood of a dressing room and a training field and act upon his conclusions.

Chemistry

If he is very good -- and Trapattoni's track record and early going with the Irish team insists that he is -- he can make new priorities, new chemistry and one of the classic means is requiring every player, whatever his level of talent, to take another look at himself.

This is especially so if a player happens to have a tendency to be less than relentless in the application of his talent.

By inviting Reid, in the most practical way, to examine himself anew, and to consider why it was that a man of Trapattoni's immense experience preferred to go with an apprentice like Gibson into a match alive with the possibilities of ambush, the coach may, in one single stroke, have provoked a bout of self-analysis which stretched well beyond the finer feelings of one somewhat irresolute player.

There could, when you think about it, hardly be a more pointed way of saying that a player's reputation accumulated down the years counts for nothing when he submits himself to the regime of Giovanni Trapattoni.

Il Capo decided that he could trust young Gibson, rely on his body of work in a team performance which needed to be filled with commitment if the demons released so damagingly in the past by Cyprus were to be swept to one side.

Gibson proved he was worthy of Trapattoni's trust. He did not light up the sky but he worked hard and he didn't lose his nerve or his heart -- and his weathered old patron got the right result. For the moment, then, the end of the argument, though, of course, football is a place more than most where yesterday's argument can so easily be tomorrow's consensus.

Consensus? It will never be Trapattoni's goal, no more than it was that of another ancient, rugged individualist, 70-year-old Luis Aragones in his stewardship of Spain in last summer's brilliant European Championship campaign.

Aragones lit fires of controversy almost every time he picked his team. Cesc Fabregas was a sublime substitute who changed the course of vital games, but when he finally made the starting line-up, in the final against Germany, he was pulled off the field shortly before the triumphant climax.

The celebrated Fernando Torres spent much of the tournament waiting for the signal to leave the action. Yet both he and Fabregas were among the players who threw the old man in the air at the end -- and dutifully caught him as he returned to earth.

Will Andy Reid ever be inclined to join in such a celebration on behalf of Trapattoni? The word from the dressing room suggests not, at least not any time soon.

For the Italian it is almost certainly a matter of supreme indifference. Trapattoni has the football heart of a defender, an Italian one at that.

Few breeds of sportsmen are quite so far removed from easy sentiment.

Their birthright is to be mean and practical and concerned entirely with fashioning the right result.

As players, they do not concern themselves with the howls of the crowd, or their victims.

As coaches they do not go sleepless over the chattering of the analytical classes, whatever their status.

Whether it is a gut-wrenching tackle or a hard choice when the team list goes up, they do what they consider necessary.

Who won the argument? Trapattoni, naturally, and in ways Andy Reid may never know -- or understand.

- James Lawton