SIPTU to ballot on Aer Lingus strike

**Ringo** · 07/10/2008, 6:32 AM

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1006/lingus.html

Can't help thinking the unions are living in cloud cuckoo land. A strike is the last thing the airline needs. With airlines going bust, surely they should be trying to save the airline. No one in their right mind is going to book a flight with Aer Lingus in the next few months.

**Newryrep** · 07/10/2008, 7:57 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1006/lingus.html

Can't help thinking the unions are living in cloud cuckoo land. A strike is the last thing the airline needs. With airlines going bust, surely they should be trying to save the airline. No one in their right mind is going to book a flight with Aer Lingus in the next few months.

Agree with most of that although they have a lot of cash reserves, I will certainly avoid Aer Lingus up to Xmas if I was booking to go anywhere. Since its just been announced I expected the hardline statements but your woman on R1 (about the transatlantic crew becoming american)this morning going on about people choosing Aer Lingus because of the cabin crew was certainly on drugs.

Having said that I think there is a market between budget airlines and the big combined national carriers which all seem to be merging. Their one way tickets as certainly competative (have you tried the national carriers one way ?) and their network aint that bad given the size. I actually dont mind paying a bit more to not fly budget if possible as the times/experience are normally more handy/pleasant

**OneRedArmy** · 07/10/2008, 8:09 AM

Hilarious interviews with the union reps last night and this morning.

They all admitted that something had to be done, but every time when pressed they couldn't come up with one suggestion, constantly referring back to the previous productivity increases their members agreed to. Those will be a lot of good when Aer Lingus goes to the wall.

One rep even went as far to say with certainty that the price of oil will fall further going forward, I'd say she's in the wrong job if she knows that. Also tried to poo poo the declining macroeconomic environment..... Do they read the papers?!

It seems to have been forgotten by most of the media that Aer Lingus have offered mediation until end Nov, whilst the unions are bringing nothing to the table, other than ridiculous half-baked notions per the above quotes.

As usual IMPACT a bit more balanced than SIPTU, but I hope Aer Lingus has the balls to take them on. If they don't like these proposals I can't wait to see how they react to a foreign takeover.

**Macy** · 07/10/2008, 9:04 AM

Aer Lingus' problem isn't the unions, it's been the strategy. It has no long term future if the best Mannion can do is try to out Ryanair Ryanair, something that is doomed to failure. People are prepared to pay some premium for a better service, but Aer Lingus management aren't even bothering to try for that market. The Government might as well have let Ryanair take over.

God fobid the unions try to protect their members terms and conditions of employment - Aer Lingus employee's have given a lot over the last few years.

**OneRedArmy** · 07/10/2008, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Aer Lingus' problem isn't the unions, it's been the strategy. It has no long term future if the best Mannion can do is try to out Ryanair Ryanair, something that is doomed to failure. People are prepared to pay some premium for a better service, but Aer Lingus management aren't even bothering to try for that market. The Government might as well have let Ryanair take over..

Disagree. There is no future for small niche high cost carriers. Sabena, Swissair, Alitalia etc.........

Originally Posted by Macy

God fobid the unions try to protect their members terms and conditions of employment - Aer Lingus employee's have given a lot over the last few years.

Why are productivity increases seen as "giving"? Pay rises and bonuses were linked to productivity increases, its not like they did it for free.

As I said, lets see how the unions do for their members when Aer Lingus get taken over.

**Macy** · 07/10/2008, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Why are productivity increases seen as "giving"? Pay rises and bonuses were linked to productivity increases, its not like they did it for free.

But the productivity deals weren't done for more money! In most cases there were done for less. Workers have had their leave entitlements cut and working hours increased for the same basic pay. It's the management that have turned it from a profitable semi state into a loss making private sector.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

As I said, lets see how the unions do for their members when Aer Lingus get taken over.

They can hardly expect a worse deal than what they can currently expect. The managements behaviour must put in jepordy any furture privatisations - B&I gave us the Irish Ferries debacle, and now Aer Lingus. The two prime examples of the race to the bottom are state facilitated!

**Newryrep** · 07/10/2008, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

But the productivity deals weren't done for more money! In most cases there were done for less. Workers have had their leave entitlements cut and working hours increased for the same basic pay. It's the management that have turned it from a profitable semi state into a loss making private sector.

They can hardly expect a worse deal than what they can currently expect. The managements behaviour must put in jepordy any furture privatisations - B&I gave us the Irish Ferries debacle, and now Aer Lingus. The two prime examples of the race to the bottom are state facilitated!

Macy are you trying to argue that if Aer Lingus in the present globaal circumsstances was still semi state company that it would be a) still profiable or b) less loss making than as a private company

what do you suggest? spend the cash reserves to see them through this rocky period to hopefully eventual profitability ?

**pete** · 07/10/2008, 10:31 AM

Aer Lingus are losing money & with no more government bail outs (the real reason for AL privatisation) that means need to cut costs. That is the world of private companies. The world is heading for or in a recession which means less demand for airlines.

It is sad that 1500 people will lose their jobs but at least they will have an opportunity to get a job with the outsourced company. I don't know if Aer Lingus can compete for the same market as Ryanair as they are stuck with legacy of higher cost base. Even when they made profits they were very small.

The unions threatening to strike will probably just endanger the jobs of the entire workforce. The reality is they have no choice but to accept this & protect the jobs of the majority. The staff received large share package & pay off from the government when the company was made private.

**Macy** · 07/10/2008, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by pete

& pay off from the government when the company was made private.

What pay off from the Government did the workers receive?

**pete** · 07/10/2008, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

What pay off from the Government did the workers receive?

Shares in the private company. IMO this was basically the payment for moving to the private sector i.e. change in work practices.

**Ringo** · 07/10/2008, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Newryrep

Agree with most of that although they have a lot of cash reserves, I will certainly avoid Aer Lingus up to Xmas if I was booking to go anywhere. Since its just been announced I expected the hardline statements but your woman on R1 (about the transatlantic crew becoming american)this morning going on about people choosing Aer Lingus because of the cabin crew was certainly on drugs.

Having said that I think there is a market between budget airlines and the big combined national carriers which all seem to be merging. Their one way tickets as certainly competative (have you tried the national carriers one way ?) and their network aint that bad given the size. I actually dont mind paying a bit more to not fly budget if possible as the times/experience are normally more handy/pleasant

I always try and fly Aer Lingus, i hate Ryanair.
i'll happily pay a little extra. But if the unions don't cop on , they'll go bust. i heard a guy on the radio saying that Aer Lingus have enough cash for a 2 week strike. They've already lost 22 million this year & are heading for a loss of 54m for the year. If oil prices go up , they gone.

**anto1208** · 08/10/2008, 8:35 AM

I will never fly airlingus again flew to the states a few weeks back and it was easily the worst flight ive ever been on i forked out nearly 800 euro for a return flight to NY. They are worse than ryanair just without the cheap flights. the plane didnt have TV's in the seat backs it had the single ones that drop down and it didnt work properly you could see half the screen !! then the came around with drinks so i thought ill have a few beers it wont be so bad 4euro for a 330mil can of beer !! thats nearly 8 euro a pint for a drink that should be free. when i asked for a blanket as they wheren't put out on the seats i was told that there was a bag of them further up the plane and to get it myself !!

On short flights not getting any drinks is fine as you ll be there in an hour but on long haul flights its a joke its no wonder the airline is loosing money when its been ran like that i cant say it would bother me if they went under and Ryanair came into shannon.

**pete** · 08/10/2008, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by anto1208

I will never fly airlingus again flew to the states a few weeks back and it was easily the worst flight ive ever been on i forked out nearly 800 euro for a return flight to NY. They are worse than ryanair just without the cheap flights. the plane didnt have TV's in the seat backs it had the single ones that drop down and it didnt work properly you could see half the screen !! then the came around with drinks so i thought ill have a few beers it wont be so bad 4euro for a 330mil can of beer !! thats nearly 8 euro a pint for a drink that should be free. when i asked for a blanket as they wheren't put out on the seats i was told that there was a bag of them further up the plane and to get it myself !! .

Surprised to hear that as I thought AL fairly good transatlantic. Sounds like a US airline as their planes are usually old.

What has happened in the past doesn't matter now. AL are losing money & will the economic situation will only get worse. They are an independent company which has to pay its own bills so no sugar daddies left.

The most interesting thing AL seem to want to move cabin crew staffing to the US presumably because it is cheaper (I am sure dollar value has a lot to do with). Did you ever think Irish jobs would be moved to the US to save money?

**OneRedArmy** · 08/10/2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by anto1208

I will never fly airlingus again flew to the states a few weeks back and it was easily the worst flight ive ever been on i forked out nearly 800 euro for a return flight to NY. They are worse than ryanair just without the cheap flights. the plane didnt have TV's in the seat backs it had the single ones that drop down and it didnt work properly you could see half the screen !! then the came around with drinks so i thought ill have a few beers it wont be so bad 4euro for a 330mil can of beer !! thats nearly 8 euro a pint for a drink that should be free. when i asked for a blanket as they wheren't put out on the seats i was told that there was a bag of them further up the plane and to get it myself !!

On short flights not getting any drinks is fine as you ll be there in an hour but on long haul flights its a joke its no wonder the airline is loosing money when its been ran like that i cant say it would bother me if they went under and Ryanair came into shannon.

The US airlines are as bad, if not worse. Certainly the staff are much more surly and the comfort is no better.

Welcome to the future of air travel.

Also, can't see how giving out free drink improves their finances?

**Dodge** · 08/10/2008, 1:06 PM

I've flown transatlantic with a few airlines and AL are way, way better than any of the US airlines (always had a seat back TV too with Al too, unlike American Airlines)

Nice grasp of maths too on the price of a pint

**anto1208** · 09/10/2008, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I've flown transatlantic with a few airlines and AL are way, way better than any of the US airlines (always had a seat back TV too with Al too, unlike American Airlines)

Nice grasp of maths too on the price of a pint

Oh god there is all ways one isnt there

Imp. Pint = 586ml
1 can = 330 ml
2 cans = 660ml
1 can = 4 euro
2 cans = 8 euro

just for you 7euro 11 cent a pint ! thats miles away from NEARLY 8 euros !!!!

**Dodge** · 09/10/2008, 10:01 AM

I wasn't being sarcatic...

**Duffman** · 10/10/2008, 10:03 AM

Eh not wishing to be pedantic yet going to, the maths thing that Dodge mentions is true. A pint is the equivalent of 1.72 cans which is 6 euro 88 cent. Pint is 568 mls not 586.

Now off I go to scan the local papers for spelling and grammatical errors

**anto1208** · 10/10/2008, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Duffman

Eh not wishing to be pedantic yet going to, the maths thing that Dodge mentions is true. A pint is the equivalent of 1.72 cans which is 6 euro 88 cent. Pint is 568 mls not 586.

Now off I go to scan the local papers for spelling and grammatical errors

indeed you are correct, still a complete rip off for something that should be free.