As in November 1993.Originally Posted by seanfhear
Ironically a year later we beat NI 4-0 at Windsor Park in a key qualifier for both of us. Had the scores been reversed and we'd won 4-0 in Nov 93 it would have aroused suspicion.
If your team or my team had been the one to lose out we would have thought that they were very cosy together cosidering in the three matches the cosy friends always managed to get the team qualified.
If we are honest and our team did not qualify because of these matches we would be very suspicious.
Sean, drop the wind up. Your team and my team didn't lose out; Sweden and Romania lost out in 1982 and 1986 because they lost home and away to Scotland and us; our games against Scotland and England back then were aggressive and edgy; Sweden and Denmark kicked lumps from each other in what you seem to think was the equivalent game in Euro 2004. The Italians then, and the others earlier, made only a half-hearted protest. They realised their own poor form explained non-progress. There's no story.
I am been a "little" serious in that when these results go our way we say that every thing is fine and dandy and if the reults in this type of game went against us we would be spitting feathers.
If we are honest we are all hypocrites.
Last edited by seanfhear; 15/10/2008 at 12:17 PM.
No. My biggest regret on the footballing front from that night was that we didn't win, to restore a wee bit of pride after being humped 3-0 in Dublin previously.
As regards the NI team generally, I have a thousand greater regrets, not least not deciding just to shove my Degree, beg, steal or borrow some money and just go out to Spain for the 1982 World Cup Finals anyhow.
(Btw, I specified footballing regrets to distinguish them from the non-footballing regrets which I also have from that match, such as the crowd misbehaviour and subsequent over-reaction, as well as that bloody Jones play etc)
You might as well have shoved your degree because IMO you will never again see the loyalist team in the World Cup finals.
I was at the Wembley game in 1985. Anyone who professes to know anything about football and believes it was some sort of "fix" is an idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG97E9gJ5LM
From the above, see Big Pat's save from a "Hoddle Special" (8 mins 10 secs), or from Kerry Dixon (9 mins. 03 secs), or Martin O'Neill's comments (9 mins 09 secs). They could even have a word with Alan McDonald (9 mins. 25 secs)...
I was at the NI vs ROI match as well. Anyone who professes to know anything about football and who believes the NI players weren't totally up for that one as well is still an idiot.
And what would be the marks of that "fundamental ethos", then?
The Green shirts? The Celtic Cross on the badge? The name "Northern Ireland"? Sea of Green? Football For All? Players, management and supporters from the Nationalist community?
"Amarillo" maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0da68...eature=related
"Sweet Norn Iron"?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZ_gT...eature=related
The Bouncy, perhaps?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hrXmBH...eature=related
Or perhaps you mean this bunch, from the Warsaw Branch of the DUP?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJSfmQ...eature=related
Last edited by EalingGreen; 18/10/2008 at 3:21 PM.
Aye, and when players go back to their clubs after being away with their respective countries, they don't take the p1ss out of each other if something goes wrong?
Try telling that to Chris Iwelumo:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RqkShPKgAbw
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...rs/7676674.stm
Or have you never heard the story of Denis Law on the day of the World Cup final in 1966? Apparently he played golf on the afternoon of the game. His round wasn't a good one. When he got back to the clubhouse, someone told him England had won 4-2. "That's all I fcuking needed", he said, as he threw his clubs into the corner.
Remind me again what league Denis was playing in at the time?
And what degree do you possess, then? It wouldn't be Politics, Philosophy and Economics, by any chance?
Last edited by EalingGreen; 18/10/2008 at 4:52 PM.
No. Human Resource Mgt degree and Hdip in Accounting and Finance actually. Why do you ask?And what degree do you posses, then? It wouldn't be Politics, Philosophy and Economics, by any chance?
Because your views on such matters are invariably coloured by your politics.
Here's another question: Have you ever been to an NI match? Indeed, have you ever been to NI itself?
just out of curiosity has any of the home nations knocked another home nation out or the republic of Ireland for that matter when the result did not matter to the team that did not need a result
I cant recall this ever having happened.
Funny that!!
[quote=EalingGreen;1042951]And what would be the marks of that "fundamental ethos", then?
It seems strange to me that if the majority of voters on OWC want a replacement anthem for GSTQ that they actualy sing this along with "Rule Brittania" during your games. I could see only one green banner being displayed by NI supporters during the Slovenia game but plenty of Union Flags and Red Hand of Ulster emblems (many bearing explicitly unionist slogans). In fact your supporters behave very much like the alleged (but totally unsubstantiated) behaviour of the Irish junior teams who were subjected to violent sectarion abuse by loyalist hooligans. To quote your good self;
"Some of them hung Tricolours out their windows one evening and may even have sung some "party tunes". Now whilst such behaviour ought to be tolerable enough, they were naive (imo) for not realising that this might cause a row with their neighbours."
I would respectfully suggest that you are guilty of much greater naivity if you think that the behaviour of your supporters is in any way welcoming and inclusive. Never mind the grass roots initiatives, if you are in any way serious about attracting more nationalists to the NI team, get yourselves a neutral flag, a neutral anthem and enforce a ban on any emblems, flag, chants and songs that are explicitly partisan. If that is beyond you then maybe we should have an All Ireland team with neutral flag and anthem as the only means of banishing divisive and sectarian posturing at what should be sporting events.
The answer to your question is "No".
Such a situation has never arisen, due to the fact that teams from the 5 "home" nations have only been drawn together on rare occasions. Moreover, most qualifying Groups have only had five or four, even three, teams, with only one qualifying. So that the chance for one already qualified team either to go easy on, or go all out against, a team hoping to qualify in second place has simply never happened.
Therefore it's not "funny", it's probability, if not certainty.
Anyhow, if you really believe England and NI concocted a draw in 1985, after England had won in Belfast a year previously, thereby meaning NI were going to have to win home and away against Romania in order to qualify in second position, then you're in the wrong place.
You really would be better suited looking for the final proof that Prince Philip murdered Princess Diana with the CIA gun the Mafia used to kill JFK, before making his getaway on Shergar, disguised as Elvis...
Can't be true, Shergar was shot within 24 hours of being horseknappedPrince Philip murdered Princess Diana with the CIA gun the Mafia used to kill JFK, before making his getaway on Shergar, disguised as Elvis...
http://pix.ie/widgets/generate/accou...000-F5F5FF.jpg
"It's time for the FAI to grow up." John O'Donoghue, Minister for Sport, RTE , Sunday 7 Nov 2004
There's no "if" about it. A clear majority 2:1 of voters in two well-subscribed polls indicated they wanted GSTQ to be replaced by a uniquely NI anthem, even before knowing what such a replacement might be.
"They" [i.e the crowd] don't sing RB at [every] match. The only games I've attended where it has been been sung recently has been against Wales and Scotland, as a p1ss-take following their anti-British/NI booing and singing. It certainly wasn't sung at recent the games against Georgia, Slovakia and San Marino which I attended. It may have been sung at the Slovenia game (I was in the USA), but I've no idea why. Nor do I know by how many.
If you know anything about football, you'll know that it is exceedingly rare for a whole crowd, or even a big majority, to join in in singing any particular song. Therefore it is not possible to ascribe a particular view to "the fans" of a team, as a consequence of a section of their support behaving in a particular manner.
After all, if we were all to draw such conclusions, we might imagine that all ROI fans are sectarian (booing Holland's Rangers players), or anti-semitic (abusing Israel's players and supporters) or anti-British ("Sit down, if you hate the Brits" in Germany).
And that's before we get to certain fans adding "Up the Ra" when the Fields of Athenry is sung...
Aye right. You sat with your remote on freeze frame, counting flags. I wasn't in Slovenia, but my experience of following NI home and away is that the great majority of fans wave either NI flags or Green & White or IFA flags. A minority wave Union flags, and if anything, this minority is decreasing.
As for "explicitly unionist slogans", I have no idea what the Hell you mean.
I don't know whether you do not read properly what I post, or do not understand it, or merely see my name at the top and automatically assume the worst.
But I will try one more time to explain what I posted on that topic.
Bennocelt asked what had happened in Coleraine. As briefly as possible, I explained that some young footballers were abused and assailed in their accommodation by a loyalist mob from the housing estate next to where they were staying.
This was late at night, miles from the venues where the tournament was being staged and some time after play had ceased for the evening. Moreover, the players in question were actually inside their accommodation at the time. Therefore, not only had this nothing to do with the Milk Cup tournament itself (that was merely the pretext for their being in Coleraine), but their would-be attackers probably wouldn't even have known they were there, had they not drawn attention to themselves.
Which was the sole reason I mentioned their hanging out flags and possibly singing party tunes, for which my evidence was a post on a Shamrock Rovers website that same night by a Shams youngster who says he was at the tournament with his team.
I did NOT mention it in order in some way to "blame" the Cherry Orchard lads for the attack - I explicitly stated their behaviour ought to have been "tolerable enough" - nor did I seek in any way to exonerate or defend their assailants, who I described as "scum" etc.
If you were truly "respectful", you would not blatantly contradict someone who has been attending NI matches for decades, when he describes what goes on at NI games, when you yourself clearly haven't been at an NI match in years (if ever).
Why ignore such initiatives? Because they inconveniently contradict your whole argument? Instead of being so dismissive, you might actually care to educate yourself about the myriad initiatives which the IFA conducts every day of the week, in every part of NI. And to determine their value, you need only Google "SARI", "Brian Kerr" and "IFA", to see what you come up with.
If the poitcians in NI can agree on a new flag for NI, then I would happily accept that being used at our games.
In the meantime, however, despite the official flag of NI actually being the Union Jack, we do not fly that. Rather, we fly the existing Northern Ireland flag - it matches the name of our team, after all.
And why should we fly a "neutral" flag? The FAI considers that it can select anyone born anywhere in Ireland, including NI. Will they fly a "neutral" flag instead of the Tricolour, so as to make themselves attractive to those one million Irish people who do not recognise it as their own?
After all, if you are going to tell me what we should do, it would only be fair if I'm allowed to tell you what you might do...
As I have said before many times, I would much prefer a new anthem to replace GSTQ. But this is because I believe an NI team should have an NI anthem, not due to some spurious notion of "neutrality". Why should we, alone of FIFA's 200+ nations, have to have a "neutral" anthem?
As with the Tricolour, would you accept the ROI also adopting a "neutral" anthem to replace the Soldiers Song, since its lyrics and sentiments clearly alienate the million Irish people I mentioned above?
Or are you not prepared to change your flag and anthem because you don't actually give a damn about us, and so don't wish to "attract" or "include" us?
UEFA and FIFA monitor every competitive match we play. Not only are they satisfied with the organisation of our games and behaviour of our supporters, but they have actually commended us in this respect.
But it is clear that you are not prepared to accept my first-hand testimony;
will you accept the eye-witness account of Gary Spain, when he posted the following?
"I been to 2 NI home games in recent years - Azerbaijan 05 and Spain 06. The atmosphere was superb even for Azerbaijan.
The sectarian chants and songs from 1993 (Billy Boys, Sash, FTP) etc are gone .
The other thing that has changed completely is the colour. Many did not wear colours in the late 80's/early 90's and those that did wore red/white and blue. Now virtually everyone is in green.
GSTQ is played beforehand but if it is really that offensive to stand for it you can always disappear to the toilet for a couple of minutes or arrive late."
After all, he did post it in direct response to one of your own posts, on this very thread.
Or do you know better than him, too?
No need for an All Ireland team (or a more logical all-United Kingdom, for that matter).
Instead, what we need is for people to approach this whole difficult subject in an informed and open-minded manner, without the confinement of any pre-conceived ideas.
On which point, you indicated earlier you may be able to get tickets for NI games. There's one at home to Hungary in November. Why don't you go to that match and see for yourself, instead of sniping from the sidelines from a position of ignorance?
Considers?
EG - the onus is on the IFA to make the NI football team more accessible for everyone in NI as a large minority of the population does not identify with the team. Whether this means adopting a neutral flag/ a neutral anthem/ neutral party tunes/ neutral tolerable behaviour it's up to you wee lassies to sort out.
What this has to do with the country of Ireland, it's flag, it's national anthem and it's football team is beyond me
Ealing I watched the england /northern ireland game and in my opinion kerry dixon did a good job of missing those chances and if by some flukeThe answer to your question is "No".
Such a situation has never arisen, due to the fact that teams from the 5 "home" nations have only been drawn together on rare occasions. Moreover, most qualifying Groups have only had five or four, even three, teams, with only one qualifying. So that the chance for one already qualified team either to go easy on, or go all out against, a team hoping to qualify in second place has simply never happened.
Therefore it's not "funny", it's probability, if not certainty.
Anyhow, if you really believe England and NI concocted a draw in 1985, after England had won in Belfast a year previously, thereby meaning NI were going to have to win home and away against Romania in order to qualify in second position, then you're in the wrong place.
You really would be better suited looking for the final proof that Prince Philip murdered Princess Diana with the CIA gun the Mafia used to kill JFK, before making his getaway on Shergar, disguised as Elvis...
one of them had gone in I have no doubt NI would have got(been given)an equaliser.I think that neutrals are just a little bit less biased when commentating on how some of these games are conducted.
In the three games that we have disscussed the right result was achieved for the home nation or republic of Ireland.
I think that is as near to scientific proof as we are going to get on this issue.
It would be interesting to look at bookies odds on the teams that needed the result as this might also give an insight as to how the bookies thought these matches were going to go and how they did go.
Double Standards if ever there were.Considers?
EG - the onus is on the IFA to make the NI football team more accessible for everyone in NI as a large minority of the population does not identify with the team. Whether this means adopting a neutral flag/ a neutral anthem/ neutral party tunes/ neutral tolerable behaviour it's up to you wee lassies to sort out.
What this has to do with the country of Ireland, it's flag, it's national anthem and it's football team is beyond me
The FAI asserts its right to pick any player born anywhere on the island. Fine. Yet it flies a flag and plays an Anthem with which a significant minority (1 million) does not identify.
Therefore, if the FAI truly wants to be accessible to everyone in Ireland, this must mean adopting a neutral flag and anthem, plus the suppression of all divisive behaviour (e.g. booing of Rangers players, "Up the Ra" during FOA, "Stand Up if you hate the Brits" etc) by their fans.
Otherwise, if they are not prepared to do so, then they are clearly not genuinely interested in attracting support from every Irish person, presumably because their definition of "Irishness" is essentially a political one.
Which would, of course, explain why the FAI operates a clear policy of only approaching players from one community in NI, a policy the effect of which is to reinforce the sectarian divide in Ireland, not break it down.
Are you familiar with the phrase "Bloody Hypocrites"?
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