Another Nordie thread

[seanfhear]

Unlucky.

maybe surprisingly to some but sometimes I do get lucky

[co. down green]

EG, I’m not sure that posting a few utube links of ni fans singing really proves your point, one could post links of fans singing ‘God Save The Queen’ or shouting the loyalist ‘No surrender’ during the English anthem or singing ‘ Ten German bombers’ or ‘The Sash’ to counter your argument of a changed atmosphere among the support or an embracing of 'Football For All'.

So it does not really wash!

One could also point to the singing of ‘Rule Brittania’, The Dambusters & ‘The Famine Song’ at the game in Slovenia as another example of ‘business as usual’ among some in the ni fan base.(As well as apeing Glasgow Rangers supporters)

As regards banners, not sure why ni fans have recently started hanging a large ‘ God Save The Queen’ banner behind the goal at games or why they saw the need to celebrate Healy’s playing of the flute with ‘Our Culture Is Not A Crime’ banner.

Hardly any more football related than bringing flags with the names ofloyalist flute bands on them to games.

And if the FAI is going to exploit the Irish Government's Nationality provisions for the purposes of footballing eligibility, neither can any of us stop them doing so, even in a manner which discriminates (proper sense of the word) in both practice and imagery in favour of Nationalists from NI and against Unionists. (Even though I think it disgraceful, since it is effectively creating a sort of "sporting Apartheid" in NI).

Nothing to do with the Irish Government’s Nationality provisions, I suggest you read up on the Belfast agreement, it automatically makes me an Irish citizen.

I think ‘sporting apartheid’ is more like when a governing body takes generations to start too tackle the sectarianism that infested its own support. One would have thought that they might have made some effort to counter the sectarian bile directed at Pat Jennings and Martin O’Neill during the eighties, but it continued, and Rogan & Lennon suffered the same fate.

[third policeman]

IOK, well here's an even better one. You have stated that you have a source for tickets at the IFA. Why not take him/her up on that and go to a game yourself?
Or are you afraid that the evidence of your own eyes and ears would contradict what you appear to believe to date?

Not at all afraid and as said earlier I would be honoured if you accompanied me if the tickets can be secured.

[geysir]

For you see, opting to play for the NI team does not make someone more British/less Irish, or automatically a Unionist/no longer a Nationalist.

I never said playing for NI made someone less Irish.
Nor that the players like Jennings did not play with pride. Indeed Jennings has publicly said that politics or religion was never an issue between the players as it was for all the fans who abused him.
Irish nationals have a choice now who they want to play for with pride.

I don't know when this research you refer to was first conducted, but I doubt whether it predated the first rolling of Big Jack's Bandwagon. In which case it is hardly a definitive guide to the attitude of NI nationalists towards the NI team:

The Charlton bandwagon jibe is fine if it was a bit of banter but you appear to believe it, which indicates that you have not much of a clue about the Nationalist community and their lack of relationship with Windsor Park during the 1980's.
But I know you know better than that.
In 1991 over 90% of Nationalist considered the Republic to be Nr1.
80% of Nationalist took more satisfaction from the Republics 1990 World cup venture than NI in 1982, about 18% took equal satisfaction from both.
That research indicates to me that vast majority preference for the Republic dated from before Big Jack's tenure.
People could also tell the difference between a multi denominational NI team which they wished well in the WC and the Windsor Park experience.

As for Marc Wilson, I have seen it written that he is Protestant. That said, he was brought up in Aghagallon, which is apparently 96.6% Catholic

Of course you have seen it written because it was debated on the OWC board - how could a Protestant declare for the Republic etc? The debate stopped when somebody pointed out that he could possibly be a Catholic.
It was not the FAI who drew up the lines in NI. Their job is to make sure that interested Irish Nationals know about their options and declare for the Republic.

[ifk101]

What I posted was "if" (you are urging etc).
This followed your bringing up the topic of neutral symbols etc.
I do not propose any "neutral" symbols etc, for any National team.

And what context was your "if-ing" in?

Anyhow, are that the best nail you can hang me on from what I've posted? If so, I think I must be doing OK.

If you insist on selective copy and paste from wikipedia/google/Shamrock Rovers' forum, please provide the link so that the reader can read the original source. Otherwise your posts come across as the meandering drivel of an old man that the reader will skim through (if that).

Unless, of course, you're not doing very well...

What exactly am I suppose to be doing well at?

I point out that the FAI represents the country of Ireland, its flag, its national anthem and its people and the IFA should look after its own affairs, to which you get all hot under the collar about and suggest I'm prejudiced and hypocritical.

[Not Brazil]

One could also point to the singing of ‘Rule Brittania’, The Dambusters & ‘The Famine Song’ at the game in Slovenia as another example of ‘business as usual’ among some in the ni fan base.(As well as apeing Glasgow Rangers supporters)

I can categorically state that "The Famine Song" was not sung at the game in Slovenia.

What was sung was "The Maze is over, why don't you go home?", directed at Howard Wells.

[paul_oshea]

EG, I beleive that there must be some Nationalists in the OWC who identify with the republic and the republic flag, who go to GAA matches and who have attended croke park, but who are solely NI supporters. And this is where my question was coming from, there are obviouslly fans of NI who bring the Union flag, as they are unionists and feel part of the territoris of UK and NI. That is their right and belief, but therefore it is also the right and belief of a NI supporting nationalist who identifies with the tri colour therefore I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed withour fear or prejudice to bring their flag along in an all inclusive supporter base.

[Gather round]

EG, for those that bring union jacks and display them, lets say some nationalist supporters brought a tri-colour, would you object to it being hung along with, and beside those Union jacks?

It'd be hilarious, I'd have no objection to it. But it's about as likely as your numerous Britain-based fans rolling up at Croke with a union jack.

to try and suggest that the right result was agreed on and executed is beyond belief

Seanfhear is obviously just winding us up (as he admitted in post #224, being only a "little serious").

That's about it. Looks like some NI soccer fans in the 6 counties have still got a lot of growing up to do

Winding up ad nauseam, snide asides and embittered prejudice aren't adult.

FIFA is satisfied with the full Irish nationality automatically given at the time of birth to people born in the 6 counties

Not quite. As FIFA's statutes confirmed in May 2008, nationality isn't in itself a sufficient criterion for selection. The territory of the relevant association doesn't include Northern Ireland; conceivably a player from there wouldn't have residence or birth qualification, or even a parent or grandparent born elsewhere in Ireland.

Article 16

Nationality entitling players to represent more than one Association

A player who, under the terms of art . 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

(a) He was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born an the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously an the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may make an agreement under which item (d) of par. 1 of this article is deleted completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be lodged with and approved by the Executive Committee

Although it could be argued that their [unionist] tradition is represented fairly prominently on its national flag

Ha ha. As nobody half wise would actually argue it, I can see why even you demur.

If there was an All Ireland team then I would certainly expect its emblems and anthems to be neutral and inclusive

I doubt that, but go on, tell us. What neutral and inclusive anthem and emblems?

It's just sad that the IFA and evidently most NI fans either cannot grasp this

We grasp your witless wind-up well enough.

PS Yes I do choose to take your testimony about the inclusiveness of the culture at NI games with a pinch of salt, because it conflicts with the evidence of someone who I have known for many years and whose profession requires him to be objective and accurate

Even if your anonymous mate actually exists (which I doubt), I'm not sure you fully understand how the shock-jock profession actually works. You claim said mate knows authoritatively that no Catholics attend NI away games. Did he do a survey as they entered the ground, or what?

Where exactly am I urging the IFA to "adopt" neutral anything?

Er, "Whether this means adopting a neutral flag/ a neutral anthem/ neutral party tunes/ neutral tolerable behaviour it's up to you" looks fairly explicit, given that you repeated three times. No-one expects you to trawl the whole thread, but I think we might reasonably expect you to remember your own posts.

EG, I’m not sure that posting a few utube links of ni fans singing really proves your point

As EG made clear, it illustrates the point rather than proving it. Among other anecdotal evidence, recognition from other countries' fans, football authorities etc.

The Charlton bandwagon jibe is fine if it was a bit of banter but you appear to believe it, which indicates that you have not much of a clue about the Nationalist community and their lack of relationship with Windsor Park during the 1980's. But I know you know better than that. In 1991 over 90% of Nationalist considered the Republic to be Nr1. 80% of Nationalist took more satisfaction from the Republics 1990 World cup venture than NI in 1982, about 18% took equal satisfaction from both.That research indicates to me that vast majority preference for the Republic dated from before Big Jack's tenure.

Do you have a source for that research, looks interesting?

[EalingGreen]

EG, I’m not sure that posting a few utube links of ni fans singing really proves your point, one could post links of fans singing ‘God Save The Queen’ or shouting the loyalist ‘No surrender’ during the English anthem or singing ‘ Ten German bombers’ or ‘The Sash’ to counter your argument of a changed atmosphere among the support or an embracing of 'Football For All'.

So it does not really wash!

One could also point to the singing of ‘Rule Brittania’, The Dambusters & ‘The Famine Song’ at the game in Slovenia as another example of ‘business as usual’ among some in the ni fan base.(As well as apeing Glasgow Rangers supporters)

As regards banners, not sure why ni fans have recently started hanging a large ‘ God Save The Queen’ banner behind the goal at games or why they saw the need to celebrate Healy’s playing of the flute with ‘Our Culture Is Not A Crime’ banner.

Hardly any more football related than bringing flags with the names ofloyalist flute bands on them to games.

My, you have been busy!
Re. the Sash in Cardiff, I won't try to defend that - it should have no place in a football context. All I will say is that if a group of fans from amongst 4,000(?) get p1ssed and start singing it outside a pub at an away match, what can be done? I'm sure it wasn't sung inside the stadium, nor has it been sung at Windsor in years.
And a (single) NS chant during GSTQ is an infortunate add-on by a minority (like e.g. Up the Ra during TFOA) which is impossible to suppress.
As for the rest - I really think you need to get real. GSTQ in Denmark - so what? Is that any worse than e.g. ROI fans singing about "hating the Brits" etc in Germany? Dambusters? Ten German Bombers? Or Rule Britannia - sung as a p1sstake?
As for the Banners - the GSTQ one is the work of one idiot (imo), who has been scorned by the majority on OWC. Personally, I don't agree with it; then again, as an Atheist, I find e.g. those John 3:16 Banners at football grounds a bit of a joke - so what?
The "Culture" Banner was, I assume, a direct response to those Celtic fans amongst the Scotland support who were pathetically "offended" by Healy's joke at Craven Cottage. I was in Hampden and didn't even see the banner, like most of the NI support, since we were seated behind it.
As for the ("All-Ireland Champions") Flute Band - if they are welcome e.g. in Limerick for the Shannon International Festival of Music, I fail to see how some of their members bringing an NI flag to an NI game is any more objectionable than e.g. some ROI fans bringing a Tricolour with e.g. "Chelsea FC", or some pub name, written across it to one of their games.
In fact, if Football For All is to mean anything, it must be that anyone who wishes to attend an NI game should be able to do so without being deterred, threatened or intimidated on account of their religion, colour, politics, disability etc.
And as someone who regularly attends games, home and away, in the company of people from all backgrounds, I can assure you that none of them is any more discouraged by the experience, than to make an occasional shake of the head.
On the contrary, for e.g. the Scotland game which you cite, with 6,000 fans going to Glasgow during the marching season, and Celtic/Rangers, ferries, all-day drinking and all the rest, the potential for trouble might have been thought to have been higher than usual. Yet I don't think there was one single arrest, as fans of both teams mingled entirely without problems for one almighty session. Indeed, the Strathclyde Police wrote a letter afterwards commending the impeccable conduct of the NI fans throughout the whole trip.
And that is the reality of following NI with the GAWA these days - like every set of fans, we have a small percentage of d1ckheads. The point is, however, that those d1ckheads no longer dictate the behaviour of the vast majority, nor do they have the capacity to threaten any individual with whom they might disagree over irrelevant, non-footballing issues.
(P.S. I wasn't in Slovenia, myself, so can't comment. Then again, from Not Brazil's post, it is clear that neither were you... )

Nothing to do with the Irish Government’s Nationality provisions, I suggest you read up on the Belfast agreement, it automatically makes me an Irish citizen.

I suggest you read the Agreement! NI-born people were entitled to Irish citizenship long before the GFA and consequently, the FAI was entitled to select such people long before as well - and did. (Did you not check out my reference to Donnelly and Hoy, for instance?)
However, they also voluntarily joined with the IFA in a Gentlemans Agreement in 1950(?) not to do so any more, until they reneged on this during the tenure of Brian Kerr.
So the GFA - which doesn't even mention football - is entirely irrelevant.
P.S. The GFA does not "automatically make [you] an Irish citizen"; rather, it endorsed the status quo ante, which is that you are entitled to take up Irish citizenship from the moment of your birth, should you so wish.

I think ‘sporting apartheid’ is more like when a governing body takes generations to start too tackle the sectarianism that infested its own support. One would have thought that they might have made some effort to counter the sectarian bile directed at Pat Jennings and Martin O’Neill during the eighties, but it continued, and Rogan & Lennon suffered the same fate.

It is the FAI which is, as we speak, currently conducting a clearly discriminatory selection policy in the NI context, not the IFA. Which is the real problem, which you seem anxious to avoid.
Whilst in the meantime, we are supposed to change History, then? Sorry, but I have to live in the present (and hope to live into a the future for another good few years). You might do well to do the same. You never know, you might even enjoy it - so long as you keep an open mind...

[ifk101]

It is the FAI which is, as we speak, currently conducting a clearly discriminatory selection policy in the NI context

How???

The FAI has a history of picking anyone and anybody regardless.

[EalingGreen]

I never said playing for NI made someone less Irish.

No, but that is the clear implication of your contention (i.e. that no-one who is "Irish" could prefer to play for NI over ROI)

Irish nationals have a choice now who they want to play for with pride.

And I have indicated here and elsewhere why I think FIFA, in failing to apply to the FAI the same birth/ancestry/residence provision as they do to 206 other Member Associations, is wrong to accord such a choice.

The Charlton bandwagon jibe is fine if it was a bit of banter but you appear to believe it, which indicates that you have not much of a clue about the Nationalist community and their lack of relationship with Windsor Park during the 1980's.
But I know you know better than that.
In 1991 over 90% of Nationalist considered the Republic to be Nr1.
80% of Nationalist took more satisfaction from the Republics 1990 World cup venture than NI in 1982, about 18% took equal satisfaction from both.
That research indicates to me that vast majority preference for the Republic dated from before Big Jack's tenure.
People could also tell the difference between a multi denominational NI team which they wished well in the WC and the Windsor Park experience.

My point was twofold.
First, being deterred from following one team and deciding to follow another are two separate events - even if the latter may follow the former soon after. For instance, I have no doubt there were NI Nationalists who eg were turned off from following NI in the 70's, who did not immediately switch to following the ROI.
And if the success under Charlton suddenly produced a surge in support for the ROI team amongst people in the Republic, why should the "bandwagon" factor not have been equally pertinent to increased support for the team from amongst Northern Nationalists?
Second, you appear to be choosing a survey from 1991, to validate your views on Northern Nats attitudes towards the NI team generally. You do not demonstrate how the survey results reflect the situation during the decades from the 20's through to the 70's, when attitudes were almost certainly somewhat different. Nor can such results be used to "prove" attitudes in much more recent times, when the whole match day experience is radically different from the bad old days of the 80's and 90's etc.

Of course you have seen it written because it was debated on the OWC board - how could a Protestant declare for the Republic etc? The debate stopped when somebody pointed out that he could possibly be a Catholic.
It was not the FAI who drew up the lines in NI. Their job is to make sure that interested Irish Nationals know about their options and declare for the Republic.

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make. If it is that the occasional NI Protestant might opt for the ROI and be accepted equably, then I would not disagree.
Just as I would hope you might agree that NI Catholics like Baird and McKenna might decline the advances of the FAI, or even that the likes of Kane and O'Connor might willingly revert to representing NI, even after a dalliance with the FAI.
But that does not negate my general point, which was that by only approaching members of one community in NI to play for them, the FAI is operating a discriminatory policy which serves only to reinforce division in NI, not heal it. Worse still, those ROI fans who accuse the IFA of acting prejudicially are being hypocritical, especially when faced with all the evidence, such as "Football For All" etc.
As for Wilson, my view is clear. He approached the FAI after a personal fall-out with an IFA coach. Moreover, he was entitled to do so under the (imo misguided) FIFA ruling on eligibility. Now as it happens, it seems that with a Dublin grandfather, his eligibility for the ROI need never have been questioned. Therefore, if he doesn't want to play for us, so be it.
Beyond that, I neither know nor care what religion he is.

[Not Brazil]

As for the Banners - the GSTQ one is the work of one idiot (imo), who has been scorned by the majority on OWC. Personally, I don't agree with it;

EG,

The GSTQ Banner first surfaced in Slovakia.

It is not without coincidence that this was in the aftermath of a, very public, debate about what the Northern Ireland team should use as an anthem in future....you will recall, a Unionist MLA (Basil McCrea) called for a change in anthem policy for Northern Ireland fixtures.

As you have also alluded to in this thread, this is an issue that has been extensively discussed amongst the Northern Ireland fanbase for several years now.

In my opinion, the banner was a statement by some of those who support the retention of GSTQ as the anthem representing the Northern Ireland team...perhaps it is a sign that they realise the momentum for change is growing?

I am pro change, but I support unequivocally the right of anyone to hold a different opinion, and to put that opinion forward for discussion.

The "anthem" issue is a potentially very divisive one amongst the Northern Ireland fanbase - it requires to be dealt with sensitively, and with patience.

One thing is for certain - there will be no change to the current anthem policy to placate those who demonise and vilify everything "Northern Ireland", and seek the demise of our international team.

Change will take place if and when those with the best interests of the Northern Ireland team ie. Northern Ireland supporters, decide it is in our best interests to do so.

The case for change is strong. Given time, I firmly believe that those whose insecurities dictate that adopting a new, "sporting", anthem for the Northern Ireland team constitutes a sop to our detractors, will see beyond the "not an inch" mentality, and realise that the strenthening of a "Northern Irish" identity is a good thing.

[EalingGreen]

The FAI has a history of picking anyone and anybody regardless.

Tell me about it - FAI = Find An Irishman...

But to be serious, there is clear evidence that since Kerr was in charge, the FAI has reneged on the previous Gentleman's Agreement whereby they would not select NI-born players.
Moreover, they do not just wait to be approached by such players, but are actively engaged in making the first approach.
However, it is also clear that they are only approaching players from one of the two communities in NI.
Therefore, this discriminatory (correct sense) policy undoubtedly has the capacity to reinforce division and segregation in NI, not end it.

Which I think is shocking, disgraceful, hypocritical and indefensible.

[EalingGreen]

EG,

The GSTQ Banner first surfaced in Slovakia.

It is not without coincidence that this was in the aftermath of a, very public, debate about what the Northern Ireland team should use as an anthem in future....you will recall, a Unionist MLA (Basil McCrea) called for a change in anthem policy for Northern Ireland fixtures.

As you have also alluded to in this thread, this is an issue that has been extensively discussed amongst the Northern Ireland fanbase for several years now.

In my opinion, the banner was a statement by some of those who support the retention of GSTQ as the anthem representing the Northern Ireland team...perhaps it is a sign that they realise the momentum for change is growing?

I am pro change, but I support unequivocally the right of anyone to hold a different opinion, and to put that opinion forward for discussion.

The "anthem" issue is a potentially very divisive one amongst the Northern Ireland fanbase - it requires to be dealt with sensitively, and with patience.

One thing is for certain - there will be no change to the current anthem policy to placate those who demonise and vilify everything "Northern Ireland", and seek the demise of our international team.

Change will take place if and when those with the best interests of the Northern Ireland team ie. Northern Ireland supporters, decide it is in our best interests to do so.

The case for change is strong. Given time, I firmly believe that those whose insecurities dictate that adopting a new, "sporting", anthem for the Northern Ireland team constitutes a sop to our detractors, will see beyond the "not an inch" mentality, and realise that the strenthening of a "Northern Irish" identity is a good thing.

Thanks. Although I was in Slovakia (and sober enough!), I didn't actually see the banner there.

As for the rest - agree wholeheartedly.

[ifk101]

Tell me about it - FAI = Find An Irishman...

But to be serious, there is clear evidence that since Kerr was in charge, the FAI has reneged on the previous Gentleman's Agreement whereby they would not select NI-born players.
Moreover, they do not just wait to be approached by such players, but are actively engaged in making the first approach.
However, it is also clear that they are only approaching players from one of the two communities in NI.
Therefore, this discriminatory (correct sense) policy undoubtedly has the capacity to reinforce division and segregation in NI, not end it.

Which I think is shocking, disgraceful, hypocritical and indefensible.

But give examples. Can you say to 100% certainty that the FAI has never approached players from the second communtiy you mention?

[EalingGreen]

EG, I beleive that there must be some Nationalists in the OWC who identify with the republic and the republic flag, who go to GAA matches and who have attended croke park, but who are solely NI supporters. And this is where my question was coming from, there are obviouslly fans of NI who bring the Union flag, as they are unionists and feel part of the territoris of UK and NI. That is their right and belief, but therefore it is also the right and belief of a NI supporting nationalist who identifies with the tri colour therefore I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed withour fear or prejudice to bring their flag along in an all inclusive supporter base.

I see what you are saying, but fear you are missing the point.

When a fan brings a flag to a game, he is (or should be) demonstrating his allegiance to the team. Of course, in the NI context, carrying an NI flag or a Union flag* will also invariably denote his political allegiance, as well.
However, the NI flag is the flag of the NI team (and the UF is technically the official flag of NI itself).
Whereas, the Tricolour is the flag of another international team (and country).
Therefore, it would be barmy (imo) for someone who supports the NI team to carry the flag of a rival team, whether that rival be ROI, England or Ivory Coast!
Otherwise, if/when NI next plays ROI, which team would our mythical NI Nationalist be seen to be supporting were he to bring along his tricolour?

The answer to this conundrum is clearly to wave a Green flag, or an IFA one. I myself used to wave a green and white chequered one, which I am pretty certain was originally a Fermanagh GAA flag(!), until one of my fellow NI fans nicked it. I wonder was he a Nationalist? Or if he was a Unionist, does he know what he acquired?


* - I personally think it entirely inappropriate, on several levels, to bring a Union flag to an NI game, but there you go.

[EalingGreen]

But give examples. Can you say to 100% certainty that the FAI has never approached players from the second communtiy you mention?

There is clear evidence, including from players themselves, that the FAI is actively approaching NI-born players with a Nationalist background. Further, every single NI-born player (with the possible exception of the atypical Wilson and the earlier equally atypical Kernaghan), who has actually selected by the FAI, has been from a Nationalist background.

Moreover, it would make sense for the FAI to tread very delicately with NI Unionists, since such players would be both much more likely to decline an invitation, as well as liable to embarrass the FAI by making it public etc.

But of course, I cannot "prove" that the FAI has never approached NI Unionists. Then again, I cannot "prove" eg that there is no Loch Ness Monster. But I am certain enough in my own mind that Nessie is a load of tosh....

[geysir]

Not quite. As FIFA's statutes confirmed in May 2008, nationality isn't in itself a sufficient criterion for selection. The territory of the relevant association doesn't include Northern Ireland; conceivably a player from there wouldn't have residence or birth qualification, or even a parent or grandparent born elsewhere in Ireland.

As I said some NI fans have a bit of growing up to do
You should know by now that you are not up to engaging in an eligibility debate.
Please refer to eligibility threads on the OWC and here.

Irish nationals qualify under Article 15, a permanent nationality which does not depend on residence.

The article you quoted is article 16, for a single nationality which qualifies you to play for more than one association. Eg. a British nationality.
An Irish Nationality does not come under article 16 because an Irish nationality only entitles you to play for the Republic. An Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for NI.

Don't you remember EG's obsession with interpreting nationality to mean nationalities?

[Gather round]

More hot air from Reykjavik. It's quite clear what FIFA's statutes mean, not that I agree with them. For players from NI wanting to play for the South, nationality isn't enough in itself for eligibility. I'll take FIFA as the authority thanks, not the web ramblings of a few Scandinavians.

An Irish nationality doesn't entitle to play for Northern Ireland? Aye, right.

[aidz1]

Jaysus lads,
have ye no jobs???

Essays being written on here..

i have a suggestion for a new flag that would incorporate the island of ireland.
Perhaps, some green that symbolises the nationalist community ( and also green for teh emerald isle) and perhaps some orange which could represent those living here of the unionists belief. And to merge the unity of the 2, some white for a bit of peace and love
we could replicate those 3 colours on the french national flag and have said 3 colours vertically across.. any thoughts??