Keith Fahey

[Saint_Charlie]

He just lifts his other foot off the ground.

He's a quality free kick taker too to be fair to him.

[TonyD]

Can you not see that spelling has nothing to do with footall knowledge .

Freudian slip ? Very good.

On the Keith Fahey debate. He's a super player, and I hope he does well in the premier league. And if he doesn't, he'll still be a damn good player. Part of me would love to see him get a call up, it would be great for him. On the other hand I genuinely don't give a toss about the national team. Attitudes like that of youngirish have done their fair share in bringing me to this view. People who purport to be Irish football fans but who have some sort of perverse delight in rubbishing football that's actually played in this country. Yes, we get it, our teams aren't as good, as rich or as glamorous as top English clubs, but so what, they are still our clubs playing in our towns and cities. In no other field of sport (or anything else) do you come across this attitude.

[NeilMcD]

Tony D do not let youngirish put you off supporting the Irish team. There are plenty of guys and girls who support the Irish team and also support the League of Ireland or at least are not anti League of Ireland and would like to see it do well, they may not have a team but would like to see it prosper.

I would say the same too if an Ireland fan said he was not into the League of Ireland because most League of Ireland fans are anti the national team. I would defend the League of Ireland fans and say that most of them support the Ireland team. Do not let extremists on either side put you off what is our national team.

[paul_oshea]

in fairness neil, if he can be that fickle about supporting his country then its all the better he doesn't.

[Greenbod]

in fairness neil, if he can be that fickle about supporting his country then its all the better he doesn't.

Spot on!...Nobody should have to be persuaded or talked into supporting their country.


BTW...same goes for playing and a certain Man City midfielder!

[geysir]

Just the same as the objectionable odd Pats supporter shouldn't be a issue to stop anybody cheering on Pats when they represent the LOI in Europe.

Maybe Trap will bring in a few new names into the squad, which has some honour.
I'm a bit sceptical of the value of the honour of a first senior cap for a player brought on 5 seconds before the end (monetary value not considered )

[Billsthoughts]

Spot on!...Nobody should have to be persuaded or talked into supporting their country.

Replace "country" with "local club" and you might have a better understanding of TonyDs pov.

[youngirish]

Freudian slip ? Very good.

On the Keith Fahey debate. He's a super player, and I hope he does well in the premier league. And if he doesn't, he'll still be a damn good player. Part of me would love to see him get a call up, it would be great for him. On the other hand I genuinely don't give a toss about the national team. Attitudes like that of youngirish have done their fair share in bringing me to this view. People who purport to be Irish football fans but who have some sort of perverse delight in rubbishing football that's actually played in this country. Yes, we get it, our teams aren't as good, as rich or as glamorous as top English clubs, but so what, they are still our clubs playing in our towns and cities. In no other field of sport (or anything else) do you come across this attitude.

I don't have anything against the LOI. I've never stated anything of the sort though it's an accusation that many LOI fans like to throw around when I disagree with some of their more outlandish statements regarding the relative qualities of different players since they've often nothing more constructive to pull out of the hat to disparage my arguments.

If the truth is to be known it's that I respect people who support their local club and pump their hard earned cash into it wherever they are from. I've lived away from home for the best part of a decade now so I certainly can't be strolling down to Tolka park anytime soon when I fancy catching a game.

What I do have a problem with on these forums is that many of these so-called LOI fans who think they are somehow more knowledgeable about who should be playing for the National team (again I stress isn't this what this forum is about?) than the non LOI fans even though a cursory look through the vast majority of their previous posts on these matters have invariably been proven to be unrealistically biased and enormously wide of the mark.

You can generally spot the above quite easily, they use terms like barstoolers, slag people off for supporting United or Liverpool and shout people down who quite rightly (imo) point out the limitations in the abilities of the players they worship. They often claim that they have some deeper insight into the game because they occasionally waltz down to their local ground to watch players and levels of the game that are often almost (note the term almost) as far removed from International football as the Sunday league teams many of us play for (or have played for in the past). You can see many such opinions from LOI fans referencing some of my earlier posts on this thread.

This would be tolerable if it wasn't for the fact that their inflated opinions of the majority of LOI players that move abroad are proven to be incorrect time and time again without any sort of knock on humbling effect.

Maybe Fahey will turn out to be the exception to the rule that they called right (along with Doyle) but I won't get too vocal about shouting for him to be called up over McCarthy, McCann or Garvan until he performs consistently well at a higher level. As stated earlier I think he'll do ok in the Premiership but Glenn Whelan and Keith Andrews do okay and I don't sing their praises. We need some international midfielders noticeably better than those 2 if we are to progress over the next few years so the told you so smugness on the original post I referenced is not even slightly warranted yet.

[Billsthoughts]

I don't have anything against the LOI...... .

Fahey is a completely different type of player to Andrews and Whelan.

[topia]

I don't have anything against the LOI. I've never stated anything of the sort though it's an accusation that many LOI fans like to throw around when I disagree with some of their more outlandish statements regarding the relative qualities of different players since they've often nothing more constructive to pull out of the hat to disparage my arguments.

If the truth is to be known it's that I respect people who support their local club and pump their hard earned cash into it wherever they are from. I've lived away from home for the best part of a decade now so I certainly can't be strolling down to Tolka park anytime soon when I fancy catching a game.

What I do have a problem with on these forums is that many of these so-called LOI fans who think they are somehow more knowledgeable about who should be playing for the National team (again I stress isn't this what this forum is about?) than the non LOI fans even though a cursory look through the vast majority of their previous posts on these matters have invariably been proven to be unrealistically biased and enormously wide of the mark.

You can generally spot the above quite easily, they use terms like barstoolers, slag people off for supporting United or Liverpool and shout people down who quite rightly (imo) point out the limitations in the abilities of the players they worship. They often claim that they have some deeper insight into the game because they occasionally waltz down to their local ground to watch players and levels of the game that are often almost (note the term almost) as far removed from International football as the Sunday league teams many of us play for (or have played for in the past). You can see many such opinions from LOI fans referencing some of my earlier posts on this thread.

This would be tolerable if it wasn't for the fact that their inflated opinions of the majority of LOI players that move abroad are proven to be incorrect time and time again without any sort of knock on humbling effect.

Maybe Fahey will turn out to be the exception to the rule that they called right (along with Doyle) but I won't get too vocal about shouting for him to be called up over McCarthy, McCann or Garvan until he performs consistently well at a higher level. As stated earlier I think he'll do ok in the Premiership but Glenn Whelan and Keith Andrews do okay and I don't sing their praises. We need some international midfielders noticeably better than those 2 if we are to progress over the next few years so the told you so smugness on the original post I referenced is not even slightly warranted yet.

Just as couple of points on this, i dont think ive ever heard a LOI supporter claiming that any LOI player should be walking straight into the international team. the reason LOI supporters can get annoyed is that none of these players are given a chance to be involved in any way until they move across the water. They arent tested in friendlies or invited to train with the squad to see what they are capable of. Nobody is suggesting that many LOI players should be involved but what is to be lost by calling up a stand out performer from the LOI such Fahey or Brian Murphy to squads such as the 40 man one before they move across the water???????

You also seem to have a problem with the term "Barstooler" which in my opinion is quite apt unless these people attend 10-15 of 'their' english or scottish clubs games a season then they are effectively observing from the comfort of their barstool.

"and shout people down who quite rightly (imo) point out the limitations in the abilities of the players they worship"
A LOI fan would have every right to disagree with someone who points out the limitations of any player they have never seen playing, how is someone who doesnt attend LOI games in a position to comment on the limitations of its players?

on that note i dont really think you are in much of a position to comment on the standard of the league as you have done unless you have managed to attend a good number of games recently

[youngirish]

on that note i dont really think you are in much of a position to comment on the standard of the league as you have done unless you have managed to attend a good number of games recently

Fair enough but let's apply that logic equally to LOI fans who don't attend Ireland games regularly (probably applies to most of them on here) and state that they shouldn't be allowed to express any opinion regarding the inclusion of an LOI player in the International team over another player as they are not in any position to comment on the LOI player's strengths relative to the Ireland team and its current players.

[Drumcondra 69er]

They often claim that they have some deeper insight into the game because they occasionally waltz down to their local ground to watch players and levels of the game that are often almost (note the term almost) as far removed from International football as the Sunday league teams many of us play for (or have played for in the past)

I'm sorry but that is utter garbage, the likes of Bohs at present would survive in the Championship and would more often then not beat more then half the teams in the SPL where James McCarthy is plying his trade.

You're essentially stating that Sunday League level is almost (note the term almost) the same level as LOI. Laughable analysis.

[topia]

Fair enough but let's apply that logic equally to LOI fans who don't attend Ireland games regularly (probably applies to most of them on here) and state that they shouldn't be allowed to express any opinion regarding the inclusion of an LOI player in the International team over another player as they are not in any position to comment on the LOI player's strengths relative to the Ireland team and its current players.

I think there are only a few extremists so to speak that have no interest in Irish matches, LOI fans generally make up the singing section at irish matches and those who dont attend would watch on tv and so in my opinion would be in a position to comment on the national team, unlike people who comment on the standard of the LOI without seeing any games and before someone says that if a non LOI fan happened to come across 5 mins of sligo v galway on tv that they can then comment on the standard of LOI dont bother... its completely different, watching an Irish game you see the whole picture* and can judge the whole thing whereas watching a few minutes of the odd LOI game doesnt tell you what the standard of the league as a whole is or whether that was just a particularly poor/good match

*by this i mean you can see exactly how the team performed, i understand that unless you are there in person you cannot see off the ball running etc

[youngirish]

I'm sorry but that is utter garbage, the likes of Bohs at present would survive in the Championship and would more often then not beat more then half the teams in the SPL where James McCarthy is plying his trade.

You're essentially stating that Sunday League level is almost (note the term almost) the same level as LOI. Laughable analysis.

The usual clever clogs post that misses the point and often invents points of its own:

1. I never stated James McCarthy was brilliant or should be playing for Ireland? Why bring him into the argument? I simply stated I wouldn't get anymore excited about Fahey than him.
2. Bohs and who else would survive? If one team in a league would survive in the Championship does that make the league as a whole comparable? Of course not. This point that you made is as in your terms the definition of utter garbage. Celtic would survive in the Premiership so therefore is the SPL as a whole comparable to the Premiership? Not a chance. Bohs would struggle to survive anyway. Teams with better players were relegated this season (Norwich and Southampton). Here's the clincher for you Norwich had 2 of the best players from previous years in the LOI playing for them at the time Mooney and Hoolihan. Hoolihan struggled to get into the team.
3. The standard is so far removed from the top level of football it might as well be. I was comparing it to International football and the vast gulf in quality that exists between the two levels. I thought I spelled that out quite clearly. Perhaps I should have highlighted it.
4. To sum it all up the Championship is far higher quality than the LOI. It has numerous International players plying their trade in it. The stadiums, training facilities, attendances and therefore player salaries are way beyond those available in the LOI (look up capitalist economics to see why this is a good indicator why it might have better players). Basically anyone who still wants to stick to their introverted, ignore all facts, fundamentalist LOI attitude needs to ask themselves this one question why if so many LOI teams would survive in the Championship then how come so many of the LOI's best players have proved to be nowhere near good enough for the second tier of English football?

Logic is your friend. Embrace it.

Anyway I'm off. I have work to do. Sometimes this can feel like beating a christian fundamentalist creationist over the head with a fossil and getting nowhere.

[lionelhutz]

I'm sorry but that is utter garbage, the likes of Bohs at present would survive in the Championship and would more often then not beat more then half the teams in the SPL where James McCarthy is plying his trade.

You're essentially stating that Sunday League level is almost (note the term almost) the same level as LOI. Laughable analysis.

I've attended all Limerick FC's home games this season. IMHO the standard is very poor in the 1st division. I can't comment on the standard in the eircom premier because I haven't seen many games.

I also play with a local junior soccer club in Limerick and I honestly believe Youngirish isn't far off in his opinion that the Eircom 1st division's standard isn't that far above the likes of the Junior Premier League in Limerick.

This has been proven by the fact that a number of players from Junior Premier League teams have played with Limerick FC and other Eircom league teams and the majority of them haven't looked out of place.

[lionelhutz]

The usual clever clogs post that misses the point and often invents points of its own:

2. Bohs and who else would survive? If one team in a league would survive in the Championship does that make the league as a whole comparable? Of course not. This point that you made is as in your terms the definition of garbage. Celtic would survive in the Premiership so therefore is the SPL as a whole comparable to the Premiership? Not a chance. Bohs would struggle to survive anyway. Teams with better players were relegated this season (Norwich and Southampton). Here's the clincher for you Norwich had 2 of the best players from previous years in the LOI playing for them at the time Mooney and Houlihan. Houlihan struggled to get into the team.

3. The standard is so far removed from the top level of football it might as well be. I was comparing it to International football and the vast gulf in quality that exists between the two levels. I thought I spelled that out quite clearly. Perhaps I should have highlighted it.

4. The sum it all up the Championship is far higher quality than the LOI. It has numerous International players plying their trade in it. The stadiums, training facilities, attendances and therefore player salaries are way beyond those available in the LOI (look up capitalist economics to see why this is a good indicator why it might have better players). Basically anyone who still wants to stick to their introverted, ignore all facts, fundamentalist LOI attitude needs to ask themselves this one question why if so many LOI teams would survive in the Championship then how come so many of the LOI's best players have proved to be nowhere near good enough for the second tier of English football?

I have to say I agree with the above points. I think most people have a problem with YI posts cause he somtimes comes across condescending in an Eamon Dunphy manner.

But the actual points he's making above are correct.

[topia]

The usual clever clogs post that misses the point and often invents points of its own:

1. I never stated James McCarthy was brilliant or should be playing for Ireland? Why bring him into the argument?
2. Bohs and who else would survive? If one team in a league would survive in the Championship does that make the league as a whole comparable? Of course not. This point that you made is as in your terms the definition of garbage. Celtic would survive in the Premiership so therefore is the SPL as a whole comparable to the Premiership? Not a chance. Bohs would struggle to survive anyway. Better teams were relegated this season (Norwich and Southampton).
3. The standard is so far removed from the top level of football it might as well be. I was comparing it to International football and the vast gulf in quality that exists between the two levels. I thought I spelled that out quite clearly.
4. The sum it all up the Championship is far higher quality than the LOI. It has numerous International players plying their trade in it. The stadiums, training facilities, attendances and therefore player salaries are way beyond those available in the LOI (look up capitalist economics to see why this is a good indicator why it might have better players). Basically anyone who still wants to stick to their introverted, ignore all facts, fundamentalist LOI attitude needs to ask themselves this one question why if so many LOI teams would survive in the Championship then how come so many of the LOI's best players have proved to be nowhere near good enough for the second tier of English football?

Logic is your friend. Embrace it.

All this is getting quite petty, but sure feck it... Knowledge is your friend embrace it???? should try that yourself some day, so celtic would survive in the EPL but the League as a whole is not comparable, The same applies to Bohs, the championship and the LOI etc... probably all very true but even teams like everton and villa cant compete with the likes of united over the course of a season nevermind the bottom teams so whats the point in making all these comparisons between the leagues. applying your principals to your benchmark of international football, Brian Kerrs Faroe Island Army arent exactly Brazil but an international nontheless and a side that id expect a LOI team to beat so where does that leave us????

oh and on the attendance issue, the attendances in the championship are much higher for a variety of reasons, not least because in england a good percentage of people support their local club, are at least a club by going to their matches rather than just watching manchester united on tv because they have found that they can combine their passion for watching football on tv and actually going to the odd game

[Drumcondra 69er]

The usual clever clogs post that misses the point and often invents points of its own:

1. I never stated James McCarthy was brilliant or should be playing for Ireland? Why bring him into the argument? I simply stated I wouldn't get anymore excited about Fahey than him.
2. Bohs and who else would survive? If one team in a league would survive in the Championship does that make the league as a whole comparable? Of course not. This point that you made is as in your terms the definition of utter garbage. Celtic would survive in the Premiership so therefore is the SPL as a whole comparable to the Premiership? Not a chance. Bohs would struggle to survive anyway. Teams with better players were relegated this season (Norwich and Southampton). Here's the clincher for you Norwich had 2 of the best players from previous years in the LOI playing for them at the time Mooney and Houlihan. Houlihan struggled to get into the team.
3. The standard is so far removed from the top level of football it might as well be. I was comparing it to International football and the vast gulf in quality that exists between the two levels. I thought I spelled that out quite clearly. Perhaps I should have highlighted it.
4. The sum it all up the Championship is far higher quality than the LOI. It has numerous International players plying their trade in it. The stadiums, training facilities, attendances and therefore player salaries are way beyond those available in the LOI (look up capitalist economics to see why this is a good indicator why it might have better players). Basically anyone who still wants to stick to their introverted, ignore all facts, fundamentalist LOI attitude needs to ask themselves this one question why if so many LOI teams would survive in the Championship then how come so many of the LOI's best players have proved to be nowhere near good enough for the second tier of English football?

Logic is your friend. Embrace it.

Anyway I'm off. I have work to do. Sometimes this can feel like beating a christian fundamentalist creationist over the head with a fossil and getting nowhere.

The usual snidey BS retort to an arguement you're losing (unsuprisingly seeing as it's about a subject you know nothing about).

1. Despite this attempt at flip-flopping it was YOU who brought McCarthy into this, not me.

2. I would disagree that Norwich and Southampton players make a better team but that's opinion. Hoolahan was one of Blackpool's better players the season before and was well up in the top 50 players in the Football League as voted by his fellow pros and managers , I don't get your point here.

3. Certainly there are poor teams in the LOI, no one as denied this but your comparison with Sunday league football was trite in the extreme and takes away rather then adds to your arguement. I never said the entire league was comparable. If your post didn't come across as you intended I'd suggest you work on your sentence construction.

4. The Championship is undoubtedly streets ahead of the LOI in terms of stadiums, training facilities, attendances and therefore player salaries are way beyond those available in the LOI. This doesn't change the fact that some teams would survive in it (Bohs, Derry, Cork would certainly give it a good go) as many teams that have come up from League One (where salaries up to this season would have been comparable) have done. You'd swear Fahey was the first player to go over from the LOI and thrive in that league in recent years the way you crap on. Yes, the likes of O'Callaghan and Byrne failed but O'Callaghan has an attitude problem and Byrne got injured after a promising start, these things happen in football.

As for your logic remark, cop yourself on, no one is suggesting that LOI players should be brought en masse into the set up, but the fact is that there are plenty of good players plying their trade there that shouldn't be written off just because they've played there, some of the stuff being written about Fahey by people who seem sick that he's proving himself (at the back end of a 13 month season for him) is cringewrothy. It was obvious to those of us who'd seen him play that he has something about him, I'm looking forward to seeing how he is next season following a rest and a good pre season.

In response to LionelHutz the difference between the Premier and First Division in the LOI is huge, given that this thread is about a player who played in the Premier Division I think I'm safe in assuming that it wasn't the First Division that Youngirish was referring to.

[lostinbrum]

Lee Carsley praised Keith Fahey in yesterday's Birmingham Evening Mail

http://www.birminghammail.net/birmin...19-23544132/2/

Carsley, meanwhile, paid tribute to the impact Keith Fahey has had since joining from St Patrick’s Athletic in Dublin in January. The midfielder cemented his place on the left of midfield during the run-in and scored the breakthrough goal at Reading.


“He’s been brilliant,” said Carsley.


‘‘When Keith came in there were a few raised eyebrows – a League of Ireland player in a team that was going for the Premier League and all that.
“But he has done more than his fair share, he has been fantastic.”

[Stuttgart88]

In partial defence to at least one aspect of YI's stance I have to say how much I resent the term barstooler and it's a phrase that some LOI posters here seem to think is appropriate to apply to anyone who doesn't go to live games regularly.

I live in the UK and despite my love for football I rarely watch live football here. For a start it's appalling value for money in my opinion. I have 2 young kids and I'm loathe to take 4-5 hours out on a Saturday (that's pretty much what it'd take including travel time etc.) when I have family responsibilities. I used to watch LOI footy regularly, Budweiser Cup (University football) and played both LSL and AUL (lower divisions) for years. These days the only live football that excites me is Ireland, a game in UK featuring Irish players worth getting a close look at or midweek Arsenal CL games when I was able to go on way home from work.

I watch 99% of my football on TV these days and am happy to stand by any judgment I make on that basis. To be called a barstooler like I'm some form of inferior football enthusiast is insulting. I may not be a "fan" in that I'm no longer devoted to one team and one team only as I now have a broader interest in the game. I'm sure others here feel the same affront.