Keith Fahey

[Qwerty]

I want to point out that Ireland are very well covered in central midfield at the moment.

We have lots of bodies but not much proven quality.

Over the last couple of years the following players have played for us in midfield: Douglas, Miller, Potter, Gibson, A. Reid, S. Reid, G Whelan, Carsley, Kilbane.

The Reids are quality players but S is injury prone and A is not in favor right now.

Quality-wise it's a big drop from Brady, R Whelan, Keane, McGrath, Townsend days. Heck who wouldn't take Holland & kinsella in a heart beat now, when Carsley couldn't get a look in.

We have some decent prospects, but Potter & Gibson appear to have stagnated. I would really like to see Garvan in the squad.

[Fergie's Son]

in my experience people who watch the games live on tv have a lesser understanding of the game because they can see players movement,team shape etc when the ball is up the other end of the pitch. you just dont get that on tv. So people who sit in the stands have a better opinion on the game than armchair supporters.

That really depends on the view you have. If you're behind the goals you really don't get to see that much. Poor seats don't allow for much analysis. Again though, outside those who are licensed or do it for a living there is no difference between someone who goes to a few EI games and someone who watches PL games on TV.

Ad hominemns aside, to suggest otherwise is just condescending.

[Fergie's Son]

Sweet jesus...

I know all I need to do about this poster now

Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.

[Fergie's Son]

Listen fergie's son,you think it comes down to how much a player earns,enough said you know sfa about football.

Either you are being intentionally obtuse or English isn't your first language so I'll try and simplify it for you:

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.

[SkStu]

Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.

how do you mean? sitting on the armchair, sitting cross ways on the armchair, balancing you dinner on your lap on the armchair, behind the armchair for a penalty shoot-out, on the edge of the armchair for exciting bits... yeah, lots of different levels for you to appreciate the game alright...

mwah hahahahaha

[adamcarr]

Bennetts first game for southampton was a disaster and he was hauled off at half time, dont think he played much for them after dat and it was them who didnt extend his loan.
he is now playing in league two

He got back in the side and started about ten consecutive games, made the Championship TOTW but was re-called. Burley had requested an extension to the loan.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...046916,00.html

[Bohemian1890]

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.

Sure you can. We use money to value people all the time. We call it wages. Forget transfer amounts and focus on what someone is willing to pay a player week in and week out. Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

Perhaps they are not "real" football fans but they probably know a thing or two about the game. Enough of them don't rate him. That might change. I hope it does but until it does I highly doubt that he is good enough for the Irish starting XI.

Let's put subjectivity to one side. That is, arguing over who we think is a good player or not.

In this case it's quite simple, money

People who make their actual living in the game currently do not rate Fahey at a level where they are willing to spend significant sums paying him. As such, under objective criteria a player who is making 10k a week versus one who is making 1k a week is most likely to be the better player

[micls]

I know.

Ffs we had average fringe players on teh same money as some of the best players in teh league at other clubs.

All wages tell you is how stupid some people running clubs are

[cavan_fan]

People are being a bit confused here. we are trying to compare players from 2 different league systems and this is always difficult. Was Henrik Larsson a great scorer or was he playing in a weak league. Was he better than Shevchenko. Well he scored more goals but the defences were weaker so......


There are a few ways of comparing Fahey with other players.

Subjectively, someone can say I've seen both and I think X is better, the problem with this is why would I trust someone else's opinion. The number of games they watch (either in real life or on TV) is probably not relevant. It just shows interest not competence. That's why I would rely on someone whose opinion I trust (e.g Trap).

The other option is to create some objective way to comapre. Irish club sides dont play English teams in competitive matches to really know if St Pat's are better than Cardiff/Wolves etc. You can create conkers-like ladders but it's a bit tenuous. (does anyone think Hull are better than Porto).

So in this free market era (still) there is a competitive market in players. Players are heavily motivated by money and tend to go where they are paid best. The idea is that the competitive nature of football and the number of managers out there mean that players tend to be paid what they are worth. Money is not a perfect science. David Beckham is paid a fortune but is not in the top 100 players in the world. But it's a good guide.

By the way I suspect Fahey will be playing for Wolves by this time next year!!

[Wangball]

I've gone on record more than once stating that the current crop of LOI players aren't good enough to play for Ireland but having been at the Pats match I'm (sort of) converted....there is no way in hell Liam Miller or Darren Potter should be getting picked ahead of Fahy in his current form

[Drumcondra 69er]

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

[Fergie's Son]

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).

[sadloserkid]

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division.

Which second tier Scottish clubs are going to match the top tier here?

[inexile]

Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).

aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews

[Colbert Report]

aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews

Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

[Fergie's Son]

'fergie son' you are an idiot...if you really dont think an SPL club would buy fahey if they could you are seriously seriously deluded.

good lad though keep watching the brilliant wonderful premiership like a good little barstooler.

That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.

[Fergie's Son]

Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

Evidently, if you go to an EI game (by the way lads, I've been to many EI games and was a season ticket holder with Shels) you have an insight into a player's ability. An insight to their brilliance that only you (and the player's mother) can see. No one else mind you. Like a professional scout. What would they know, the bar stoolers.

Look, I hope he makes it but I doubt he will.

[irishultra]

the last i heard the top LOI teams could offer higher wages to players than they would get in scotland hence the lack of players moving there.

[Bohemian1890]

That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.

You are been serious

You are some joker.LOL.

[irishultra]

there is another flaw in young fergie son argument..he bases his opinion on that fahey hasn't interested other managers...how does he know this?

I would ****ing love if Trapattoni called him up.