Did we all see Kenny's show ?
What do we think ? Do the government have the cojones to implement public pay cuts ?
Here is my prediction:
The greens will orchestrate a pull out from government and there will be an election. FG will win and will inherit the mess and will implement public sector pay cuts - and it will then be a race against time
A race between the subsequent election and the economy getting better by itself
DB Cooper is alive !
Didn't watch it, as it just looked like a divide and conquer job pitching worker and against worker. Biggest problem is that so many people will fall into the trap - the politicians, developers, bankers and tax exiles must be sat at home laughing their ****** off.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Macy, you're underestimating (either naively or wilfully) the strength of public feeling against the public sector which is very strong regardless of earning power.Originally Posted by Macy
Its nothing new either, its always been there, but the goings on of the last fews years have highlighted the two tiered structure in the country.
And tackling gross waste in the public sector isn't mutually exclusive from tackling the politicians, tax exiles and bankers. We can do both.
I also don't profess to understand what you mean by "a worker". Where is the line drawn? Is the baggage handler at Aer Lingus earning €110k a worker? What about the ESB worker in a decommissioned power station earning €100k, is he a worker? These are extreme examples, but they are not isolated. Its in the unions interest to portray neatly defined classes opposed to each other, but for the middle 80% the boundaries merged long ago.
At the end of the day, if the will of the people is strong enough, the Government of the day will eventually have to act. Regardless of whether or not its a good thing, the "have your cake and eat it" attitude that is prevalent in the public sector can't be afforded at present and in a small open economy the cost of the public sector has to be closely aligned with the economic performance of the wider economy. Thats why the first thing the IMF do when they come into a troubled economy is to cut public sector pay.
SIPTU have realised this is a line in the sand and they are bolstering the troops, as losing this battle will probably lose the war (I'd draw parallels with the miners strike in the UK).
I'm not underestimating the feeling that has been stirred up by vested interests. Public sector waste is to do with political decisions, and political will to change the way things are done. Attacking terms and conditions of workers is not taking the hard decisions - in the climate that has been whipped up by right wing economists, media and politicians it is actually the easy option not the hard one.
I have no problem with reducing pay at the higher levels, but frankly the lower grades simply can't take anymore and it'll just be feeding into the general problems of the economy - reduced consumers spending, more mortgage defaults, more black economy (child care, nixers etc). Workers from all sectors over paid for houses, are lumbered with massive mortgages stuck in negative equity.
btw ESB are not part of the public sector anymore - it operates as an independent company and is part of IBEC, it even paid the last National Wage Agreement in line with the time frames for the private sector.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Yeah, people won't take to the streets over mortgaging out grandchildrens future, or over health cuts that condemn girls to cancer, but the civil service strike and suddenly there'd be riots? I don't believe it for a second, but if it'd shake the whole feckin country out of their apathy i'd live with it!
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
You're naive if you think it'd be all out indefinite to start with - dole payments might be a bit late - que calls to joe duffy rather than call to arms.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
tipptops, you're not having a good start on Foot.ie. Lose the tone or I'll lose your account, understand?
Not with that attitude, no. Use some civility, or find another forum to post on.
.....
LTID
So, it looks like we're going to have our banking system nationalised anyway. http://www.thepost.ie/news/billions-...nks-48271.html
What have the last couple of years messing about and doing anything other than nationalising the banks done for the country except cost us more money (on the price of nationalisation if nothing else)? If people still seriously see Lenihan as the countries great white hope we are totally screwed.
Last edited by Macy; 29/03/2010 at 10:57 AM.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Not sure the timing has/will cost the country any more money?
We are where we were a year ago. Nothing really has changed, other than some provisions crystallising into losses.
The die was cast when the Government guaranteed the deposits. The script was fixed at that stage. We're just entering a new act of the play.
Sad but true. My shares in AIB plummetted today, but you don't see me complaining...
The oft promised "getting credit flowing" has been delayed - how many jobs has that cost? We've missed the opportunity to be on both sides of the NAMA equation. Now, I guess the prices paid by NAMA will be more realistic because of the continued delays, but that wouldn't have been an issue if we'd nationalised anyway. By my reckoning, the share price is still up compared to September 2008, isn't it? So we'll pay more, but at least the prominent share holders got a chance to recover some losses in the meantime.
Yeah - hasn't been often we agreed on this thread, but we are still paying for that crap decision. Lenihan walked us into this, and the FG fools gave them the out.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Quinn Direct in "administration" today. Not to be confused with examinership though!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0330/quinn.html
No doubt in my mind that the loss Quinn personally endured regarding anglo is tied to this and a reported depletion in slovency ratios for Quinn's Insurance Arm. This is serious Father.............. Famous phrase from Craggy Island!
What new business are they going to get in during this period? Zilch. Thus their revenue streams going forward are going to be hit further! They need an .........errrmmm AIG!
Last edited by Fr Damo; 30/03/2010 at 12:06 PM.
I agree on providing credit, there is even less chance of that happening now with the increased capital levels being brought in today by the EU/FinReg. Lending more and holding more capital simply does not compute and the Government are being duplicitious in the extreme by not coming clean on this.
Allied to that, after losing their shirts (and the rest of their clothes!) and given the grim near term prospects for the country, should we really be surprised that banks won't lend to an inherently risky sector?!?
IMO, given the decision was taken to keep Anglo alive (wrongly IMO) that should have been the vehicle to provide new small business lending. Another opportunity missed.
On the nationalisation point, if the two big banks require €10bn upwards, their combined market value is only a fraction of this, so again, the timing isn't as big a deal as it's being made out.
I'm open to someone quantitaively explaining, with real numbers, that anything other than the Government guarantee has a material financial impact, but I haven't seen anyone do it yet, either here or in the media.
Anglo numbers staggering.
Nationwide to a lesser extent.
Am I the only one who fails to see the point in NAMA getting a 50% "haircut" from Anglo when this just means that Anglo's valuation, based on a discount of 28%, means that further capitalisation will be needed further down the line?
The whole thing is a giant shell game anyway. The country would be in deep(er) **** if the EU hadn't let us write off all this recapitalisation and NAMA money as a special investment vechicle that doesn't count towards our national debt.
You can't spell failure without FAI
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0421/banks.html
Here's the real FF letting the veil slip again.
I'm also lost for words, except I'm not. Why should we be surprised?
It's just O'Keeffe. The guy's like a shorthand for everything wrong with the country.
You can't spell failure without FAI
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