O'Brien dropped by Newcastle today.
Originally posted by Condex
O'Brien dropped by Newcastle today.
Not as big an issue as it looks.
I would like too see O'Shea, the honey monster and O'Brein play together just for thier danger for Ireland from set plays.
Were not going their for a 0-0, we going their to win
Any condescension detected in this post is fully unintentional and is solely the perception of the reader. If I think you're an idiot, I'll tell you that. You won't need to intuit it.
I think our strongest defence is Finnan Cunningham O'shea and Carr. How anyone can talk about their strongest defence and leave out Cunningham is completley beyond me.
Since Cunningham is out, Breens fitness is huge. Richard Dunne, lets face it, is a plank. And a plank who wont be match fit (Or any other kind of fit) by the time we play Switzerland. He does alright against long ball to the tall striker sides, but Switzerland are a quick passing side with two nippy forwards. They'll embarass him. O'Brien deserves more of a chance but the Switzerland match wouldn't be the ideal place to give him it, however if Breens out he'd be the one I'd put in there.
The full backs then, in my opinion, pick themselves. Playing Finnan out of position is a far lesser risk then playing Ian Harte anywhere.
I never thought I'd worry about the fitness of Gary Breen so much though mind you
If you want to trade performances how about Breen's performances in the World Cup. Raul and Morientes didn't destroy him did they?Originally posted by carnstein
I cannot believe ANYONE would doubt O'Shea's ability to play at centre back for Ireland. Ireland V Switzerland is a massive step down for O'Shea, compared to the teams he has been facing with United. He had an outstanding pre-season at centre back and has been doing well there lately.
O'Brien hasn't been brilliant for Newcastle of late, but neither has anyone else. If you doubt his ability at the highest level, take a look at Newcastle's away game to PSV in the CL last year. There is no way Breen should be ahead of him in the pecking order.
Our best team is made up of our best players. Breen is not one of our best players, he is an extremly poor player. If I was Kerr I would have frozen him out, along with the likes of Carsley and Kinsella, the minute I took charge and given some youngsters like O'Shea, O'Brien, Partrige and so on the chance to show what they can do, because at the end of the day, it should be blatently obvious to EVERYONE that players like Breen and not good enough to qualify for and ultimatly win major championships, wouldn't you agree?
Or are they 'extremely bad' as well. Or how about the likes of Kluivert, Hasselbaink or Van Nistelrooy. Was he destroyed by them either?
Or again are they extremely bad?
I think a lot of Irish fans are biased against Breen. He's had one or two shakey performances but they were quite a long time ago. The fact that he is putting in good performances now is never acknowledged by some fans.
You're just speculating that O'Brien will be better than Breen. I haven't seen anything to suggest that he will be.
Anyway the probability is that O'Brien will play alongside Breen against the Swiss.
If that's the case I know which one of those 2 I'd be worried about.
Was he destroyed by Van Nistlerooy? Well, the only time I can ever recall him having faced Van Nistlerooy, unless I am very much mistaken, was last season at Old Trafford when West Ham lost 6-1. And again, unless I am very much mistaken, he was absolutly ripped to shreds and was almost single handedly responsible for each of the 6 goals.Originally posted by colster
Raul and Morientes didn't destroy him did they?
Or are they 'extremely bad' as well. Or how about the likes of Kluivert, Hasselbaink or Van Nistelrooy. Was he destroyed by them either?
Thats the thing with Breen, he will look fine while playing average teams like the Swiss and the Russians in our international side, but put him under pressure, real pressure and he will collapse like a tonne of bricks suspened between 2 skyscrapers by a Sunday newspaper.
There is a reason Sunderland were the only team to come in for him at the end of last season, what explaination would you put forward for this colster? Do you think if John O'Shea's contract expired, only Sunderland would be after him?
Originally posted by carnstein
Was he destroyed by Van Nistlerooy? Well, the only time I can ever recall him having faced Van Nistlerooy, unless I am very much mistaken, was last season at Old Trafford when West Ham lost 6-1. And again, unless I am very much mistaken, he was absolutly ripped to shreds and was almost single handedly responsible for each of the 6 goals.
Thats the thing with Breen, he will look fine while playing average teams like the Swiss and the Russians in our international side, but put him under pressure, real pressure and he will collapse like a tonne of bricks suspened between 2 skyscrapers by a Sunday newspaper.
There is a reason Sunderland were the only team to come in for him at the end of last season, what explaination would you put forward for this colster? Do you think if John O'Shea's contract expired, only Sunderland would be after him?
Breen played against RVN in the WC qualifier in Landsdowne.
He may have been destroyed when he played for West Ham but he had a brutal manager and brutal side.
Who played in centre of defence for Newcastle when Utd knocked 6 past them last season?
How do you know that only Sunderland came in for Breen.
OK Breen isn't a Canavaro or Nesta but neither are O'Shea or O'Brien. What Breen is though is a decent experienced defender and with Cunnigham missing it is imperative that we have some experience in central defence.
It would be extremely risky to play O'Shea and O'Brien for such a vital game.
I beg to differ. He was appaling against both of these teams in the first two games of the group. I'm not denying that many other players were too - but just look at his positional sense for the second Swiss goal. Stomach-churning.Originally posted by carnstein
Thats the thing with Breen, he will look fine while playing average teams like the Swiss and the Russians in our international side
IMHO he is the best bet for a starting slot next month - but he can be as prone to mind-lapses as O'Brien and O'Shea and I for one am not hugely looking forward to him being the senior partner in the centre of defence.
Maybe you should put her on a leash, agent-man.
What are you talking about? O'shea has the potential to be world class, obviously he's not there yet but he's still young, to dismiss him is complete rubbish, he has the potential to be a top top player.Originally posted by colster
OK Breen isn't a Canavaro or Nesta but neither are O'Shea or O'Brien.
Look O'Shea has potential and maybe he'll be a top player but I think it would be a mistake to play him alongside O'Brien in such an important game.Originally posted by Slash/ED
What are you talking about? O'shea has the potential to be world class, obviously he's not there yet but he's still young, to dismiss him is complete rubbish, he has the potential to be a top top player.
It would be absolutely devastating to both of them if they leaked a couple of goals and cost the team a chance to make it to Portugal.
I would have no problem playing O'Shea or O'Brien beside Cunningham or Breen. You need someone with experience to show these lads the ropes in international terms.
I agree with you there, it's just the way you seemed to dismiss O'Shea seemed bizarre to me, his ability and potential is there for all to see.
Breen played against RVN in the WC qualifier in Landsdowne.
Our back four was Harte - Stan - Honeymonster - Kelly. God knows how they managed to keep a clean sheet.
Remember Gary Breen against Goran Straveski? Cost us a place at Euro 2000.
Wrong, Dunne and Stan were our centre backs for that game, so the one time Breen did face Van Nistlerooy, he was destroyed, not two ways about it.Originally posted by colster
Breen played against RVN in the WC qualifier in Landsdowne.
OK Breen isn't a Canavaro or Nesta but neither are O'Shea or O'Brien. What Breen is though is a decent experienced defender and with Cunnigham missing it is imperative that we have some experience in central defence.
O'Shea is the best young defender in Europe at the moment and in years to come he will be right up there with Nesta and Canavaro, oh, but he is no Gary Breen of course.
OK he didn't play against him at Landsdowne but he has played against the likes of Kluivert, Figo, Raul etc and performed quite well.Originally posted by carnstein
Wrong, Dunne and Stan were our centre backs for that game, so the one time Breen did face Van Nistlerooy, he was destroyed, not two ways about it.
O'Shea is the best young defender in Europe at the moment and in years to come he will be right up there with Nesta and Canavaro, oh, but he is no Gary Breen of course
O'Shea may be the best young defender in Europe but most if not all of his games have been at fullback.
The fact of the matter is that if Breen were dropped for this game in favour of O'Brien and O'Shea it would be a massive risk and the sort of tinkering and wild team selections and formations that McCarthy has been accused of (Remember Kennedy playing behind the front 2).
Another fact is that Breen deserves to play in this game. He has played quite well in the last few games and deserves to keep his place.
Apart from the 1st two games of this campaign he hasn't put a foot wrong.
Its funny that the first two games were against the best two sides in the group.
I'd play himself against the Swiss but he is not a good player(but hes the best we have)
I'd consider O'Brien a better player than Breen.Originally posted by Condex
I'd play himself against the Swiss but he is not a good player(but hes the best we have)
O'Brien doesn't seem to be suited to the 100 miles an hour of the Premiership. I saw him at St. James Park against Juventus and he was pure class. Marshalled the defence and read everything Del Piero, Davids and Nedved could throw at him.
Last edited by brine2; 23/09/2003 at 8:07 PM.
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Please for the love of god dont let Harte play anymore !!
The cringe factor is just all too much at times !!
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Bang on.Originally posted by A face
Please for the love of god dont let Harte play anymore !!
The cringe factor is just all too much at times !!
Kerr should do absolutely whatever it takes to ensure Harte isn't in the team, even if it means calling the Pope out of retirement.
Cue inevitable "Harte has never let Ireland down" retorts
Maybe you should put her on a leash, agent-man.
yep .. even the swiss manager is trying it on with comparing Harte to Roberto Carlos. I think Kerr will pick O Shea on the left and Breen and A.N. Other in the centre. Bit of a cliche .. but O'Shea needs around 15 caps to get used to playing for Ireland .. and centre half is a position where we need experience.
I can't believe no one has thought of converting Harte to a left midfielder. He is aweful defencivly, but his passing is excellent and he posseses a lot of skill as well as being a very good goalscorer.Originally posted by A face
Please for the love of god dont let Harte play anymore !!
The cringe factor is just all too much at times !!
Kilbane on the other hand is the opposite, he is great going back but terrible going forward, if Harte and Kilbane swapped posistions, 2 bad players would become 2 good players.
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