He said here ? Not Loi
Not true at all. Most LOI fans are not "LOI only". Almost all Bohs fans (and fans of other LOI clubs) that i know support an English team too. As a second team mostly, obviously. There may be a snobbery from time to time towards "barstoolers" but not towards English football.Originally Posted by boovidge
He said here ? Not Loi
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I disagree with this take. There is a marked difference between the MON/MickMack trademarks of long balls pumped into the box and into the wide channels from our CBs and FBs which often resulted in a cross or a set piece in the attacking third (but more often resulted in the ball being turned over) versus what i think, objectively, we are seeing under Kenny which is recycled ball with a high degree of possession that works the ball into wide positions resulting in crosses or set pieces in the attacking third.
The snobbery I find is usually directed at the league of Ireland by the EPL supporting faction. I don’t support an English team I’m quite happy to say. Used to “support” Man City when I was a kid (70’s) until I came to realise gradually that they have absolutely nothing to do with me. Best things I ever did was start to go to Richmond Park regularly. I’m probably biased towards Kenny because of his background (conversely I’m sure that many anti Kenny people are also of that view because of his background) and I don’t mind admitting it. I think there are extenuating circumstances to his poor record so far, and I also think there are signs that things can come right for him.
Having said all that though, if he fails to beat Luxembourg and Azerbaijan again I would say he’s a goner.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
Yep, all fair. I think my saying "almost all" above could be overstated and that there are a number of fans who only support an Irish team. I don't know many of those who would be vehemently anti-English football though.
Re: Kenny. Yep, the results have to come before the end of the campaign. I said yesterday that 6 would be the bare minimum to see him kept on and preferably 8. One down...
Yeah just to clarify I wasn't talking about LOI fans in general or saying people on here are "anti-English". There's just the occasional post saying something like "I hope x goes to the Eredivisie instead of the Premier League. They play real technical football over there".
For me the key thing is what kind of good quality game time they'll get at the right time rather than the style of football these days, though I think lower down the English structures the style reservations are more valid. Off the top of my head not too many Irish have come out of the top tier academies since the clubs started investing so heavily in them so although they may get a good technical grounding, their development options may be more limited. I guess that'll apply to Zefi at Inter too though.
Oh, come off it; the moral victory (defeat) against Portugal, where we scored a goal from a set-piece, and set about desperately attempting to cling on for the remainder of a match where Portugal enjoyed no less than 73% of possession, was as typical an Irish performance as you can possibly get! If you lack the objectivity to be able to recognise this, well, then I don't know what to say.
Serbia was the same; we were 'battered', as Kerr rightly described it, for the entire match - utterly outplayed - and were wholly dependent on a near wonder-display from our teenage goalkeeper and some extraordinarily profligate finishing from the Serbs for the score not to reflect this, as 18 shots rained down on our goal. If Serbia had been 4 or 5 goals to the good by the time we scored from a ludicrously fortuitous and quite undeserved own goal - again from a set-piece (not Irish at all!) We would have had absolutely no cause for complaint.
There is no doubt whatever that these were prototypical Irish performances of the sort we've seen time and time again down the years under various Irish managers.
And if we really are serious about instigating real and lasting change this involves us being fully honest about where we are - let's not try to kid outselves.
I think there is a difference in fairness in that under Mick/MON, we were far too quick to give the ball away and launch an aimless hoof. We seem to be able to retain possession slightly better, and have more of an idea what to do when on the ball. We're not very good at actually making that idea happen, mind, and I agree Portugal/Serbia were fairly typical Irish moral victories.
Would agree with this. We're definitely attempting to pass the ball more, just witness how many times Bazunu tried to pick out a man with a short pass rather than launching it up towards a target man. As for attempting to cling on to the lead against Portugal, I would say it was more a case of them forcing us back, what with them having better footballers. We actually played some nice stuff getting forward in Portugal. Same with Serbia. Teams like these are ahead of us, so they will have more possession. That's being fully honest about where we are. Thing is, if we don't try to adjust our playing style now we will continue to fall further behind. None of this is to excuse the games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan btw, which were poor.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
While some will point to low possession stats in these matches and say nothing has changed, that’s not the whole story.
Under Kenny’s style, by playing short passes near our goal, we draw the opposing team’s high press.
When we execute the next move properly and get the ball up field, it means we face fewer defensive players than we normally would.
The challenge is that the players we have right now may not be good enough to play this system in its purest form. That may come with time as some of these players mature and grow but Kenny may not be around for that depending on how things go.
This is definitely the plan, and there's logic to it. Rather than a 50-50 from a kick-out, you keep possession of the ball and ideally get into midfield with the opposition attack behind rather than in front of you.
So far though, off the top of my head, it cost us a penalty in Portugal and an early chance at home to Serbia, and we seem just as likely to end up being closed down and either hoofing it away or worse, losing possession in our own final third, as we are to execute it properly.
We do but bazunu was drawing in and then playing powerful direct passes taking out the 1/2/3 front opposition players. I'm wondering now if that's a tactic that they've started to work on as it was never there before - I'm inclined to think it's bazunu acting on instinct and having the required ability to execute that pass. And I'm ok with that if its being used that way. But as you say it doesn't come with a free pass there are dangers especially as most players still can't easily turn their way out of losing possession
Last edited by paul_oshea; 09/09/2021 at 12:55 PM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
You're right about the risk involved, its definitely not percentage football. If we dont try it though, we'll never improve.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
Yeah, we do seem to get caught in possession 30 yards out far more often than we should do. Portugal did a couple of times early on, as did a couple of the weaker sides we played early in the year.
This is where the need for good midfielders who are comfortable on the ball comes in. Its the one area that could make a huge difference to the team. There was one incident the other night that I liked where Molumby got the ball facing his own goal and turned with the ball to start off an attack (according to the commentators Omobamidele gave him the call to turn) too often in the past that ball just goes straight back to the defender. In the long term I honestly think this will bear fruit. I'd like to see SK be around to reap the benefits, but its the way to go regardless. We can do that mixed with the up and at em "put under presshah" game.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
I watched the Rovers under 17 team a lot when Bazunu was in for them and that's exactly how they played out. They had two excellent wingbacks and if the short wasn't on or wasn't working he'd ping it to them pushing into the midfield. It's a great option, especially if you can draw 3 or 4 opponents into the press first and then just take them out of the game. His coach from that Rovers team is also on the Ireland staff now too, so that might be connected.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
The problem with that line of reasoning is that we move the ball far too slowly for that approach to really be successful.
Rather than fast, sharp, snappy possession football of the sort that would quickly advance us up the pitch, what we see is the ball being knocked around at the back, in slow, ponderous and uncertain fashion, and, when the ball is eventually played into midfield, all of our players are, inevitably, tightly marked, so, under pressure, the ball has to be played back, either to a defender or the goalkeeper, again, and it's either rinse and repeat or the goalkeeper, under pressure, having to knock it long anyway.
This kind of slow, predictable football is incredibly easy to play against, and just invites pressure and ends up with the concession of goalscoring opportunities.
Serbia, when their goalkeeper had possession, for example, had their outer centre-halves splitting very wide into fullback positions, and sometimes making forward runs, their wingbacks were pushed very far forwards, almost inline with their two (!) strikers - as we used to see with Doherty
to great effect at Wolves - and their deepest lying midfielder, a real deep-lying playmaker of the sort we seem to lack, (Kilkenny?) was comfortable coming deep and collecting the ball or receiving the ball in a slightly more advanced midfield position. And they also played with a number 10 who played between the lines but who also was prepared to receive the ball in deeper positions.
That's a much more difficult set-up to play against.
Kenny is certainly hampered by our severe lack of attacking options. With this in mind, I do think we need to be playing two up top, even if one player (Parrott?) is slightly more withdrawn. But I do think Idah performed manfully over the three matches - and I do recognise he's not at all the finished article yet.
Straw-clutching though it may be, Scully (lively and a smart finisher with 7 goals this season) and Szmodics, who can play across the forward line, and, crucially in the 10 role, may be useful options to come in, and McGrath may prove a useful option for the 10 role that we really need to introduce and fill in order to better link midfield and attack. Although Dunphy's recent promotion of McGrath as the latest cause celebre does leave me rather cold.
Last edited by Trequartista20; 09/09/2021 at 2:03 PM.
There was one moment where Molumby turned and pivoted with the ball stuck to his feet and suddenly the whole pitch opened up, perfectly illustrating how playing it short from the back can have real benefits. A few moments later he tried the same thing further up the pitch but his technique let him down really badly (itself very worrying) and the whole pitch opened up for Serbia!
Some games I watched my son playing for his school in Spain were very telling. Literally every team they played had a Cullen-like deep lying midfielder who was always the go to guy from the back. Receive, pivot, distribute...every single time. Each team had a player good enough to receive the ball under any kind of pressure. In my opinion Darron Gibson was great at receiving the ball in tight situations. It's why I still had a thing for picking Gibson even when his career was in decline. Keane was a master at it.
Having such a player makes playing cohesive football so much easier. Having an advanced playmaker, much like what Dunphy thinks he sees in McGrath (let's hope he's right) would be an amazing thing to have too. Growing up there was always one guy you could trust to give the ball to. He'd usually always be looking for it too. It's why I like Cullen so much even if he's no world beater. He's a midfielder just doing "midfieldery things", as CTP puts it.
That's why it has surprised me that Kenny took so long to see that the likes of Cullen were important to how he wants us to play. I think he believed Hourihane could do it but he didn't do it very well. It was telling that when he went back out on loan last season he had a purple patch, playing much further forward.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 09/09/2021 at 2:40 PM.
@TQ20, I actually think Serbia were an utter delight to watch from the very first minute. Beautifully balanced team. Technically strong but nothing flash. Lots of wall passes that kept the ball moving. I loved how they set up as a unit in our half, sensing they were on top and smothering us with even their CBs well into our half. Really good in-game collective intelligence. I think they're one of the more impressive sides to have visited Dublin in recent years.
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