Séamus Coleman (D Everton b.1988)

[liamoo11]

So when did he do these things?


I remember Ferguson saying he could play the Frank Lampard box to box role alright. If he wanted him behind the striker he obviously changed his mind because he never tried him there. I will choose not to respond to your last sentence.

Who else would you have ahead of him as centre mids for ireland in the last 30 years?

[SkStu]

So when did he do these things?

Is this really where you're taking the discussion?

[Charlie Darwin]

Who else would you have ahead of him as centre mids for ireland in the last 30 years?

I assume you mean in terms of raw ability and club performances since he had generally been muck for Ireland up until he quit. In that case Stephen Ireland, Steven Reid, Ray Houghton, Andy Townsend would all be in the same bracket, off the top of my head.

Is this really where you're taking the discussion?

It's a valid question. If he's capable of this stuff then surely he's done it for somebody at some point.

[SkStu]

Injuries aside, he has been doing that for Everton for the last 13-14 months.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't see it. He has a lot of qualities but, like McCarthy, they're qualities best suited to the middle third. For creativity, you're looking at the players around him.

[dr_peepee]

He's a poor mans Alonso.. He's not as mobile or dynamic as McCarthy. Not sure how he would fit into traps team in its current guise.

[Charlie Darwin]

A poor man's Alonso could mean practically anything since he's one of the best players in the world.

[tricky_colour]

Can't say I have every thought of Gibson as a particularly creative but he does rate quite highly on creativity
higher than Wes for example which surprises me. I think it's because is not as good at dribbling as Wes, who
can hold on to the ball draw players in and then play a pass into the space he has created.

[Charlie Darwin]

Rate highly on creativity? What does that mean?

[Crosby87]

Do you guys like this chick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX44gV3OQy4

[Murfinator]

Gibson is a holding midfielder. He doesn't create anything. McCarthy is a holding player. Meyler is a box to box midfielder. I would be as critical of Trap as anyone for not giving these players more chances but I don't know why anybody would say it's because they're too creative. None of them is a particularly creative player. Hoolahan is a creative player.

Just because someone plays in the DM role doesn't mean they're a holding player. Gibsons job has never been that of a holding player, if you were stretching you could call him a deep lying playmaker but he's very limited in that capacity. He's just a link man playing crab passes and percentages. Might develop into a DLP in the long run but looks very limited at the moment, would be worthless in a conventional 4-4-2

[tricky_colour]

Rate highly on creativity? What does that mean?

Score high on stat sites which rate things like creativity.

[Irwin3]

Posted before. Some nice crab football here.

[Charlie Darwin]

Just because someone plays in the DM role doesn't mean they're a holding player. Gibsons job has never been that of a holding player, if you were stretching you could call him a deep lying playmaker but he's very limited in that capacity. He's just a link man playing crab passes and percentages. Might develop into a DLP in the long run but looks very limited at the moment, would be worthless in a conventional 4-4-2

Of course not but Gibson actually is a holding player. His role for Everton is primarily a defensive one - he is the guy who sits back when defenders go roaming and rarely passes the half-way line during open play. I just don't think he's a playmaker at all. He finds men in space and switches the point of attack but in terms of actual penetration he leaves it to other players with more intricate skills.

Score high on stat sites which rate things like creativity.

What stats sites though, is what I'm asking. Stats sites are just estimates with dubious legitimacy.

[Stuttgart88]

Gibson is a holding midfielder. He doesn't create anything. McCarthy is a holding player. Meyler is a box to box midfielder.

Holding midfielder - whatever that is.

I don't think the term "creative" is that inappropriate for Gibson. He's not a Modric type player or even a Hoolahan, but he is a player who passes the ball elegantly and with good vision in all areas of the pitch. Whereas the type of player I suspect CD calls creative is a player who excels in the final third, I think Gibson is probably more at home in his own defensive third and central third. That doesn't consign him to that accursed definition "holding midfielder" though, in my opinion.

McCarthy was very much in the box-to-box mould in yesterday's game

[paul_oshea]

I think what you are saying stutts is there is another term waiting to be coined for a gibsoj type player because he doesnt really fit into the 2 categories being discussed.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, Paul, pretty much. But if you only had 2 categories of midfielder, creative or destructive, I'd absolutely have him in the former. He's more of a "ball using" midfielder than a "ball winning" midfielder, although obviously any midfielder has to have some degree of each attribute. Gibson's ball winning ability seems to have been lured out of its slumber by Moyes.

[paul_oshea]

Ya i think if you ask the question in that way to CD, he has only two options he would have to go with that also.

[nigel-harps1954]

Could have sworn I clicked on the Seamus Coleman thread..

[SwanVsDalton]

I think what you are saying stutts is there is another term waiting to be coined for a gibsoj type player because he doesnt really fit into the 2 categories being discussed.

I'm fond of the term 'quarterback' for players like Gibson, and I believe it's the type of player he aspires to (if he's not already in that mould).

The type of player who dictates the point of attack, can spot weaknesses in the option from the relative distance of their own third or half and, crucially, speed up or slow down the tempo depending on what's required using quickfire decision making and great passing technique to exploit holes in the opposition.

Even Gibson in his more maligned appearances in a green shirt demanded the ball short (often from the full-back or keeper) and looked to play the ball out from deep. Likewise under Everton he demands possession and looks to probe forward more often than not. It clearly makes a difference to Everton's creative tempo.

I don't think it's right to say he's simply playing crab passes - a player like Neil Lennon was great at retaining possession but he did nothing going forward. Gibson makes a difference to Everton's attacking play because he has the ability to quickly change the point of attack, like a fly-half seeking space in behind or out wide with a quick grubber or flat pass.

Not saying Gibson's there yet, a better example would be Alonso or Pirlo who's a master of this type - just arguing that's how he looks to play.

He'd be 'creative' in my thinking, though he's certainly ain't a Sneijder or Mata. Having said that I'd argue Gibson did show some of that kind of creativity when he got a run at Utd further forward although not on a consistent basis.