Thank you for posting this. Though I've never been to visit Tolka, it was still a treat for an old stadium nerd like me!Originally Posted by Red Star
Two points of interest (I hope) to fellow nerds:
1. The old Main Stand has what is known in the trade as a "Belfast Roof" (i.e. barrel-shaped). This passage from a feature on the old Railway Stand at Windsor Park explains further:
"The roof of the stand is known worldwide throughout the construction industry as the ‘Belfast Roof’. Prior to the advent of cheap steel systems this type of roof was the most economical way of providing a clear span roofing of sheds and warehouses. So there you have it – the railway viewing area was no more than a shed in those days."
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threa...0-000.1198933/
As I understand it, this design used to be pretty popular in football grounds in Britain and Ireland, but if Tolka may not now be unique in retaining one, they must be very few and far between these days.
(Railway Stand, Windsor)
2. Eamonn Dunphy states that Tolka staged the first floodlit match in Ireland. That honour goes instead to Distillery FC, who staged a game at their old Grosvenor Raod ground a little earlier:
“Distillery had lights in Belfast. We went up to Belfast – my dad, my brother and I – to see Distillery play (in a friendly against Burnley). They were the first team in the North to have floodlights and then we followed them down here.”
On St Patrick’s Day 1953, Sam Prole announced that Drumcondra would take on St Mirren in a friendly under those newly constructed floodlights on Monday, March 30th. The first competitive League of Ireland match under lights would follow a month later when Drums took on Dundalk."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...bley-1.3413130
Though when I say "floodlights", I should perhaps say permanent floodlights. For Cliftonville appear to have pioneered playing under lights strung out over the pitch over 60 years earlier!
As reported in the Belfast Newsletter of the day;
"It seems to be incredible, but it is a fact that in 1891 two matches were played under electric lights at Cliftonville: Distillery defeated the Reds 4–2 and the Black Watch held Cliftonville to 2–2 draw. Kick-off in each case was at 8 pm with lights suspended across the pitch. These were dismantled later with the announcement that spectators found it difficult to follow the action and that "the player seemed to have all the fun in the middle". It had been a bold experience, but not a highly successful one with the public skeptical, almost contemptuous of this enterprising project."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliftonville_F.C.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 13/06/2021 at 5:51 PM.
I'm not sure on the architectural specifics, but I think the stand in the UCC Mardyke might be one.
Looks like you're right:
Well Spotted!
Let's not forget Finn Park and the wonderful main stand..
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
We had something similar in Richmond for a long time.
C703 - 1966 St. Patrick's Athletic v Waterford at Richmond Park | Irish Photo Archive (photoshelter.com)
Great photo.I was in that old stand in Richmond, first time I was there, when the pitch sloped down to the Camac!
Think it was there until early nineties. It was demolished for our return to Richmond.
Plans always look great. I can understand the reasons Shels fans would want to retain Tolka, its a ground I always liked going to over the years with some fond memories. As with many urban centre grounds it is severely landlocked. It's could be a fine ground if refurbished but issues on traffic management, parking etc. local residents' objections, that tend to be exempted for existing grounds come but come back in to play when work is proposed that would change, even reduce, capacity. There is some scope to deal with such issues with the Dalymount redevelopment. That said any sort of high density apartments or the like should that may end up on Tolka should also be held to similar scrutiny.
First time I’ve seen that campaign. They seem to have put a lot of work into it. I thought Tolka going was a done deal with the redevelopment of Dalymount Park.
Who owns Tolka these days?
Ollie sold it to Ossie back in the day and spent the money on a 0-0 draw with Depor. Googling online doesn't really reveal much more. Does he (or his company) still own it? Was there something about the deal being subject to finding Shels somewhere suitable to play (eg Dalyer)? Did it end up in NAMA?
I thought the city council owned it, be interesting to find out.
Pretty sure it's the City Council yeah
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
Cracking Photo!
The only remaining Belfast Roof I can find in NI is at Bangor FC (though there may be one or two more below the top two divisions?)
Tbh, it looks to be held together more by rust than anything else, but in any event I think that that stand will be the one to be replaced when Bangor build a new stand very soon:
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/...plans-20737425
DCC is said to "have control" of the site in this report: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021...at-tolka-park/
Slightly vague wording, but they're the ones trying to sell it.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
I vaguely remember talk of the lease on Tolka when the Donnelly family were involved. Question was asked about the family/business putting money in to Tolka and ownership of the lease or the type of lease was one of the reasons mentioned. Be interesting to know the provenance of Tolka to DCC with the lease, ownership or control over it and whether there are conditions attached. Its certainly possible that it is on the basis of providing Shels with an alternative 'new' home or even that DCC have to transfer the land to developers in lieu of funding toward Dalymount? Regardless ye feel its fighting a losing battle to keep Shels in Tolka and have it redeveloped without it being a privately funded project. Would delays on final decisions on Dalymount be to do with complexty of Tolka ownership?
Yeah, you're right on the lease. Here's a 2004 article noting that Shels had over 100 years left on their lease from the Council. So presumably it was the lease they sold to Kilkenny, which I suppose would explain why they didn't get anything like the €45m the article values the grounds at. Though what value the lease was to anyone else, or what it means if Kilkenny still has the lease, I don't know.
If DCC are the owners of Tolka but someone (Kilkenny) has x number of years left on on the lease, it makes sense that DCC's way out of it is the permanent transfer of the property to leaseholder for whatever fee is agreed.
Unfortunately I cant see the campaign getting far. Its a bit like our plans for Inchicore the current housing crisis trumps everything at the moment. The council will have to get the balance right as you don't want a city in the future with no public amenities. When Tolka gets demolished then Richmond Road is another road in the city but they need housing fast and cant see them not using a site in that part of the city.
In the link PS posted, the issues that were given as a reason to move out of Tolka remain as obstacles for staying or redevelopment. They are problems for any old ground in an urban area, they are arguably reasons for exemptions in the planning process, some pragmatism from planners. Unless clubs move to greenfield sites outside a town it could cost a fortune to overcome such planning restraints. Imo its at odds with trying to revitalise some urban areas, increase footfall for areas impacted by moving the life of urban centres to greenfield sites eg retail parks. I know there is barely a mile between Dalymount and Tolka so not quite the same for Drumcondra/Phibsborough - potentially 2 premier league standard grounds in proximity doesnt make a whole lot of sense if public funding is involved.
There was a good article on Tolka park movement on RTE website today. Shane Dawson ex setanta sports commentator was on one of the podcasts LOI Central recently chatting about it . Whether its too late is another days story. The timings weird why did they not do this in the first place?
Gary Cronin is he the right man to manage Longford Town?
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