AIPL plans revealed

[pineapple stu]

PS Getting back to the point at hand, the Irish League (not unlike our own league) appears to be doing a good job of doing away with itself.

Thing is, it's incompetent club officials and administrators who are doing the good job of doing away with our league. They'll still be there in this new set up, but with more rein to cause havoc if the wage cap goes. The proposals do nothing to attack the root cause of the problems in the league, yet some people reckon it'll cure them?

[endabob1]

Re P&R, there's a circle here that cannot be squared (imo). If you have P&R from the beginning, then clubs will be reluctant to make the long term investment in stadium and infrastructure etc, esp if at the expense of the player budget, if there is a risk they could relegated straightaway.
But if P&R is delayed for 2 or 3 seasons (to allow stability) and the League generates the revenues which Platinum predict, then the excluded sides will be so much further behind than now, that when they do get promotion to the AIPL, the gap will be too large for them to stay there.
Exactly the same has happened in England, where there are 6 or 8 clubs "Yo Yo" clubs who are too good for the Championship, but not good enough for the EPL.

I don't see a problem with having "Yo Yo" clubs, I have more of an issue with there being no promotion or relegation for 2/3 years to enable the top 10 to get cosy and be so far ahead of the teams behind that it basically becomes a permanent closed shop. If for example promotion was only allowed after 2/3 years in a play-off system between the winners of the FAI, IFA leagues and the bottom placed team of the AIPL it would basically ensure that the AIPL side would surrvive having had 2/3 years of much heavier investment in their team and facilities.
By having P&R from the begining it may deter clubs from investing heavily in their grounds but that might not be a bad thing, it may ensure clubs are more prudent in their approach to capital spending.

[jinxy lilywhite]

The Northern Ireland national team wouldn't be affected at all. How many Irish League players play in the team regularly anyway. It's already completely independent of the clubs.

I don't think so.
1) Would UEFA let one league have two representatives? or
2) Two National teams?
3) Wouldn't this not mean an amalgamation of the IFA and the FAI?

Just a question, I'm not having a go

[GavinZac]

The proposals do nothing to attack the root cause of the problems in the league, yet some people reckon it'll cure them?

The root cause of problems in the league is the perception held by the general public that the league is awful crap populated by builders and postmen and plasterers and generally not proper footballers or clubs. This has lead to a lack of support, which has lead to a lack of finances, which has lead to a lack of quality facilities and coaching.

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.

[superfrank]

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.

But replaces them with Limerick.

[TheFingallian]

I don't think so.
1) Would UEFA let one league have two representatives? or
2) Two National teams?
3) Wouldn't this not mean an amalgamation of the IFA and the FAI?

Just a question, I'm not having a go

Well yes to 3, so i guess 1 and 2 make sense.

If they made some sort of exception it would be great but i wouldn't be too confident on that in which case i guess we would just have to stick with two pointless "national leagues" which in effect will become mere feeder leagues to a much bigger "Island of Ireland league?".

[TheFingallian]

But replaces them with Limerick.

Well a Limerick team in the top division of Irish football which if a success could make Limerick very well supported.

Two maybe's though.

[GavinZac]

But replaces them with Limerick.

Fair point, but you could pour millions into UCD and equip them with the best PR and advertisers around and still not ruffle D4's interest.

Limerick? Munster.

[pineapple stu]

The root cause of problems in the league is the perception held by the general public that the league is awful crap populated by builders and postmen and plasterers and generally not proper footballers or clubs. This has lead to a lack of support, which has lead to a lack of finances, which has lead to a lack of quality facilities and coaching.

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.

Run along, little boy - the grown ups are talking. We're not interested in the blinkered views of obsessives like yourself.

[Steve Bruce]

I haven't read right through this thread. But just say we have this league and when relegation starts. Linfield gets relegated the 1st year and Glentoran get relegated the 2nd year and 2 LOI clubs get promoted. That would leave an All-Island League with no Northern Ireland clubs (Football wise, I do not country Derry City as they play in the LOI).

I know it is unlikely that Linfield or Glentoran getting relegated, but it would be a stupid thing to see. AIL with all LOI clubs. Great stuff.

[OneRedArmy]

You do an awful lot of supposing where it's not really justified. .

Welcome to the internet. You engage in pointless, repeated episodes of hair-splitting with various other posters on a number of issues but do I complain?

You were also happy to suppose that the Limerick fans would suddenly do a U-turn when they'd previously said that their inclusion would be ridiculous.

Read my quote again, thats not what it said.

You're happy to suppse that the FAI have a "finger in the ear attitude" towards clubs' financial problems - I'd argue that the FAI's sensible 65% wage cap approach has instead caught these financial issues before they got way out of hand, and so (a) that's far from a "finger in the ear" approach, and (b) it's as much as they can really do in an issue that ultimately they don't have much control over. Maybe you should look to arguing actual issues rather than "supposing" them to exist or not.

Isn't that a supposition?

But getting back to your point, the wage cap should act as a preventative rather than a detective control over excessive spending, which means that it actually proves the wage cap ISN'T working.

[Mr_Parker]

Stolen from a poster on an IL Forum responding to the document.

“It is our belief that circa 80% of the clubs in the domestic leagues are in dire financial difficulties and the majority are technically insolvent.”

That's a truly remarkable statement to make. Don't suppose anyone has any evidence with which to back this up?


"Drury plans to finance the league through sponsorship and television deals, and to unlock government grants for stadium development."

Which "government grants for stadium development" in the North, that are currently "locked", do P1 believe they alone can "unlock"?


"It would take the financial burden off a lot of smaller clubs trying to compete with the top clubs.”

That's awful nice of them; see, they're all heart really!

[Schumi]

I haven't read right through this thread. But just say we have this league and when relegation starts. Linfield gets relegated the 1st year and Glentoran get relegated the 2nd year and 2 LOI clubs get promoted. That would leave an All-Island League with no Northern Ireland clubs (Football wise, I do not country Derry City as they play in the LOI).

I know it is unlikely that Linfield or Glentoran getting relegated, but it would be a stupid thing to see. AIL with all LOI clubs. Great stuff.

I've only been skimming through the document linked earlier but it says somewhere that they'd take measures to protect the number of Northern teams in the league. They don't say what measures they mean though.

This seems like the same sort of talk we've had several times from this group. Lots of aspiration but very little reasoning for why things will suddenly improve. The 150% increase in crowds in a year is the most glaring. They expect, for example, Cork to go from average crowds of 2,000 to 5,000 in year by playing in this new league.

There's also a telling quote about "Others, who have no prospects of playing at the top level and should, arguably, not be competing at their current level, should take the opportunity – as Kilkenny did last year – to find a level appropriate to their conditions.". They basically think clubs who they don't think should be in their league should go out of business.

[GavinZac]

Run along, little boy - the grown ups are talking. We're not interested in the blinkered views of obsessives like yourself.

Of course I'm obsessive - I want whats best for my club, my club is a daily feature of my life. Blinkered? No. In terms of opinion, blinkered is seeing the truth and shaking ones head and throwing out a random insult, denying to yourself that there's any chance the mean man might be right.

[Sheridan]

Oh man, I can't even work out who are the pots and who are the kettles on this page of the thread, it's like a cookware store in Pompeii.

[TheFingallian]

I've only been skimming through the document linked earlier but it says somewhere that they'd take measures to protect the number of Northern teams in the league. They don't say what measures they mean though.

I'd imagine if a certain quota of Northern Ireland teams are needed in the league and they have reached that limit then the Republic team who wins the Republic league will be excluded from promotion that year and the winner of the NI league will go up automatically. No other way of going about it. Another reason why their proposal is faulty.

[GavinZac]

The 150% increase in crowds in a year is the most glaring. They expect, for example, Cork to go from average crowds of 2,000 to 5,000 in year by playing in this new league.

I expect they probably mean increase crowds to 150%. Cork's average crowd has gone from 2000 to 3500 this season, not 150% increase or even 100% but certainly respectable - and that's based on radio, print and community marketing. Other facets or increased budget for the marketing should see higher growth. of course, it helps that the average man on the streets opinion on the quality of football on offer was probably boosted by the hype of O'Callaghan and Mooney.

[Mr_Parker]

I'd imagine if a certain quota of Northern Ireland teams are needed in the league and they have reached that limit then the Republic team who wins the Republic league will be excluded from promotion that year and the winner of the NI league will go up automatically. No other way of going about it. Another reason why their proposal is faulty.

Correct. And that makes any notion that P&R will be an open process. Reading the document there will be many hoops for clubs to jump through in order to gain promotion and that's not even allowing for the 'closed shop' that will be effective from the start. And the whole notion of Derry City being defined as one of those northern clubs......

[passerrby]

To be honest I can't see Platinum One being worried what you or the other 99 people at a Monaghan match think. Not saying thats right or appropriate but if all you've got is insults it makes you very easy to ignore.

to be honest i cant see the fai/ifa been to worried what one or two people at platium one think and im saying that thats right and appropriate, as for insults it was sarcasm sutle difference

[jinxy lilywhite]

Year 1 I wouldn't worry about crowds as it would have a novelty value and all but I'd worry for subsequent years when the novelty wears off and attendences drop as a result.
My biggest gripe with it is that 10 teams is too small. I think too many clubs are being left out of this. This should be done for the good of Irish Football not just for 10 Clubs, drury and roddy