Lisbon Treaty

[mypost]

Noone will have any more referendums at all, with a Yes vote, including us. More sovereignty given up.

[kingdom hoop]

Wouldn't you feel that given the fact you've been unable to decide which way to vote, and given the fact that this is an issue which will have serious consequences regardless of the result, you'd have been more responsible not to vote at all?

To a certain extent, definitely, and I did toy with that idea. But I'm going to squirm out of your reasonable cornering by saying that, rather than me having to be responsible in my decision-making, the responsibility lies more with the respective campaigns (and their supporters, like Mypost) to win my vote.

Because they had a perceptive audience reasonably educated on EU matters and couldn't do so suggests to me I can make my decision using whatever inane logic I want; I've listened to the arguments with an objective mind, none impressed sufficiently, so now the decision is in my capricious hands. That's the price you pay for not running a convincing campaign.

And, while not excusing my behaviour, surely it is far more of an egregious 'sin' for campaigners and posters here to try persuade people when they haven't read the Treaty. How responsible is that, I ask. Anyway what I really wonder is how responsible it is to delegate such an important decision to people who haven't a notion what it's about and what it'll mean in practice!

[mypost]

But I'm going to squirm out of your reasonable cornering by saying that, rather than me having to be responsible in my decision-making, the responsibility lies more with the respective campaigns (and their supporters, like Mypost) to win my vote.

You have a vote, i.e. you are responsible for exercising it with a little more care, than "I'm in a good mood today" You are making a decision on behalf of 500 million people, and are making it on one of the most stupid reasons I'ver ever heard of.

The Yes voters have been ordered by EU heads of state: "Sign, read afterwards". If in doubt, Vote No.

[jebus]

Anyway what I really wonder is how responsible it is to delegate such an important decision to people who haven't a notion what it's about and what it'll mean in practice!

I'm hoping this Treaty will mean the end to pointless Referendums like this, the one on divorce, the one on abortion, etc. It's like asking the baying mob what to do with Jesus at times. Hopefully we as an electorate would pull the finger out at local and national elections, elect competent officials and let them get on with the job of deciding these issues

[jebus]

If in doubt, Vote No.

Surely you should just not vote if in doubt? At least that's what I take from how angry you are at Hoop's process. Would you be kicking up such a fuss if he were voting No based on his mood?

[pete]

I predict 51.7 : 47.1 win for the Yes side. Turnout to be 47%.

[anto1208]

You have a vote, i.e. you are responsible for exercising it with a little more care, than "I'm in a good mood today" You are making a decision on behalf of 500 million people, and are making it on one of the most stupid reasons I'ver ever heard of.

The Yes voters have been ordered by EU heads of state: "Sign, read afterwards". If in doubt, Vote No.

If it starts raining im not going to go vote

[kingdom hoop]

Mypost was that you who sent two Legion of Mary people to my door just now? (that genuinely happened) Divine intervention for the No side. Apparently Europe will become a dictatorship with the passing of this Treaty! The primacy of God in our Constitution will be relegated! Abortion! Euthanasia! All them things! Vote No!

Being a firm believer in spirituality if not necessarily gods I think that was a sign that I should vote No. So I'm going to vote No. Happy now Mypost?

I'm hoping this Treaty will mean the end to pointless Referendums like this, the one on divorce, the one on abortion, etc. It's like asking the baying mob what to do with Jesus at times. Hopefully we as an electorate would pull the finger out at local and national elections, elect competent officials and let them get on with the job of deciding these issues

Those shouts of "Jebus for President" are getting more and more convincing.

[OneRedArmy]

Anyway what I really wonder is how responsible it is to delegate such an important decision to people who haven't a notion what it's about and what it'll mean in practice!

I'll be honest, I haven't read the full thread, but this line encapsulates exactly my position. Surely democracy is about placing trust in properly elected leaders?

[mypost]

Would you trust our leaders, with the nod and wink culture we have??

Re:kingdom hoop, considering the fact that I haven't brought up references to abortion, euthanasia in my arguments, don't think so.

[dahamsta]

There isn't a hope of turnout being that high pete, although I'd agree that it'll probably be close cut. The question is, is is the Yes or the No side that didn't get off their arses?

adam

[dahamsta]

Running this today and tomorrow only, so vote early or... um... don't vote at all?

adam

[superfrank]

I voted Yes.

[Terry]

I predict 51.7 : 47.1 win for the Yes side. Turnout to be 47%.

turnout will just scrap 30% by the looks of it.

[dahamsta]

Well done superfrank. Just clicking the button would have sufficed.

[SkStu]

i felt the last option described me best - though i am slightly spoiled and come to think of it... im pretty indecisive too...

oh wait... this isnt facebook...

[dahamsta]

I love the way 3 people have chosen the last option btw, presumably in the mistaken belief that either I or they are being funny. I'm not.

If you didn't go out and vote today you're a loser, and if you admit that to me I'll tell you to shut up the next time you bitch about politician X or policy Y. Researching the issues doesn't take a lot of time - turn a radio on, open a newspaper, fire up a web browser - and going to the polling station takes even less.

You still have time to do it, so perhaps you should stop reading this and snickering to yourself like a retard, and put the time to good use.

[That wasn't aimed at you in particular SkStu. Although it is aimed at you in general, if you're being serious.]

adam

[Kingdom]

If SkStu's location is where he is at the moment he'll have done well to vote.

[SMorgan]

Does anybody know if there will be an official Exit Poll?

Interestingly the odds of a No vote are falling on Paddypower.com. Still odds-on for a Yes vote, but somebody out there is betting heavyly on a No vote.

[kingdom hoop]

Yeah it was 1/3 Yes : 2/1 No yesterday, but now 8/15 Yes : 11/8 No.

Wouldn't take much money for that to change though.

Of course they might just be looking at the above poll.