American Politics

[seanfhear]

You hit the nail on the head Sean, as usual. Zelensky showed zero respect to the president of the United States. Even if he wasn't the president, his country (Trump's) has given billions to Ukraine, and Zelensky showed absolutely no gratitude. He (Zelensky) has been used to dealing with the previous regime (the most corrupt in US history) where money was printed for him at the American taxpayers' expense. And he himself (Zelensky) said last week that he didn't know where $100 billion of the money went to. And now he's back in Washington looking for more?

And I was glad to see Trump put him in his place - asking him if he remembered him (Trump) giving him those javelin missiles for the defence of his country when all Obama gave him was blankets. Zelensky has become a world traveler in the past few years and hasn't met a camera lens he doesn't like, while the poor citizens of his country are left to fight the battle. I honestly don't know where we go from here but there was a great deal on the table for everyone - Russia would have been out of Ukraine, the Ukrainians would have had a rare mineral deal with the US which would have brought a degree of military protection and Europe also misses out if I am not mistaken.

Zelensky failed the People of the Ukraine today.

[Razors left peg]

Doesn't take a wage but charges the Secret Service to stay in his hotels and protect him golfing.
https://www.citizensforethics.org/re...mp-properties/

Keep believing the grifter sure

[mark12345]

The sit-down press event was a disaster due to Zelensky not showing due respect to the People he came looking for help from ~ If Zelensky was un-willing to show due respect to the people he was looking for help from, in the American White-House, then Zelensky should just not have come to the White-House.

Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian People or the Ukraine by his behaviour today ~ ~ All of this should have gone on behind closed doors away from a public press event ~ ~ Zelensky has done huge damage to the Ukrainian people and the Ukraine by his stupid behaviour today ~ ~ That is completely clear.

The little details that get missed in the initial reporting (but I'm sure RTE, Sky et al will be sure to tell everyone about it tomorrow).

First - US Treasury Secy Scott Bessent met with Zelensky on February 12 in Kiev. Zelensky was supposed to sign the deal there but reneged.

Second - Zelensky promised Bessent that he would sign the deal in Munich, but never did.

Third - He comes to Washington on Friday (why the heck did he come if he didn't want to sign the deal) to ostensibly sign a deal. But lo and behold he engages in an argument with the US President. Was it all for show? It certainly looks that way.

[seanfhear]

The little details that get missed in the initial reporting (but I'm sure RTE, Sky et al will be sure to tell everyone about it tomorrow).

First - US Treasury Secy Scott Bessent met with Zelensky on February 12 in Kiev. Zelensky was supposed to sign the deal there but reneged.

Second - Zelensky promised Bessent that he would sign the deal in Munich, but never did.

Third - He comes to Washington on Friday (why the heck did he come if he didn't want to sign the deal) to ostensibly sign a deal. But lo and behold he engages in an argument with the US President. Was it all for show? It certainly looks that way.

I suggest that Zelensky has pushed his luck too far ~ ~ Maybe Zelensky made that mistake of believing too much of his own publicity ~ ~ Maybe Zelensky thinks that he is indispensable ?

Like many more before him. He is wrong about that.

[Razors left peg]

So MAGAs position is that Ukraine should let Russia take them back and don't dare fight back? Russia can take back Poland then, maybe just build back the full Iron curtain while they are at it and no one is allowed fight back? And since MAGA thinks the old colonizers have a right to take what was once theirs we must give Ireland back to the Brits? Actually wouldn't that mean The US back to the Brits too??? Make America Great Again... under the rule of the King of England

[tetsujin1979]

The little details that get missed in the initial reporting (but I'm sure RTE, Sky et al will be sure to tell everyone about it tomorrow).

First - US Treasury Secy Scott Bessent met with Zelensky on February 12 in Kiev. Zelensky was supposed to sign the deal there but reneged.

Second - Zelensky promised Bessent that he would sign the deal in Munich, but never did.

Third - He comes to Washington on Friday (why the heck did he come if he didn't want to sign the deal) to ostensibly sign a deal. But lo and behold he engages in an argument with the US President. Was it all for show? It certainly looks that way.

Bessent brought a draft to Kyiv, not the final agreement. It was rejected because it would have meant signing 50% of Ukraine's mineral wealth to the United States.
There's no indication it was going to be signed in Munich
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...13-p5lbxo.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ves-rcna192426
https://kyivindependent.com/us-treas...ical-minerals/
https://time.com/7260890/zelensky-mi...-negotiations/

[mark12345]

So MAGAs position is that Ukraine should let Russia take them back and don't dare fight back? Russia can take back Poland then, maybe just build back the full Iron curtain while they are at it and no one is allowed fight back? And since MAGA thinks the old colonizers have a right to take what was once theirs we must give Ireland back to the Brits? Actually wouldn't that mean The US back to the Brits too??? Make America Great Again... under the rule of the King of England

Trump has said several times during this process that he wants to achieve peace. He also said to Zelensky yesterday that he (Zelensky) wanted to keep the war going instead of achieving peace and that's something he (Trump) wasn't interested in doing. He also said that if Zelensky wants to keep on fighting then let him do that. And as far as MEGAN'S position on Ukraine.....are you forgetting the javelin missiles Trump gave them in 2018? Does that sound like someone who wants the Russians to take back Ukraine or someone who is bought and paid for by Putin?

So MAGAs position is that Ukraine should let Russia take them back and don't dare fight back? Russia can take back Poland then, maybe just build back the full Iron curtain while they are at it and no one is allowed fight back? And since MAGA thinks the old colonizers have a right to take what was once theirs we must give Ireland back to the Brits? Actually wouldn't that mean The US back to the Brits too??? Make America Great Again... under the rule of the King of England

I got an eye opener ten days / two weeks ago when I was sitting in a house in Ireland. It was the day when the ceasefire agreement in Gaza had stalled. Trump's image came on the TV and all of a sudden the volume is turned up. Trump said words to the effect that all hell would break loose if the hostages were not released by 12 o'clock on the following Saturday. And the people in the house were totally appalled. How could he possibly say that? Does he have no compassion? What is he thinking? It was as plain as day to me who Trump was talking to. It wasn't people in Ireland or Europe, but he was speaking instead to Hamas. And he was speaking a language they would understand. And that Saturday the hostages were released. But that sound bite on RTE or Sky or BBC was followed by as many "expert" commentators they could find who did nothing but question Trump's words in as critical a tone as possible.

And right there I discovered why opinions in Ireland differ so drastically from those in America (for context Trump is getting a lot of plaudits for how he handled Zelensky yesterday). You have no balanced media in Ireland (which includes British TV). It is one way of thinking and that's it. Here in America we have what you have essentially plus a contrasting viewpoint. And the viewers can form their own options.

So MAGAs position is that Ukraine should let Russia take them back and don't dare fight back? Russia can take back Poland then, maybe just build back the full Iron curtain while they are at it and no one is allowed fight back? And since MAGA thinks the old colonizers have a right to take what was once theirs we must give Ireland back to the Brits? Actually wouldn't that mean The US back to the Brits too??? Make America Great Again... under the rule of the King of England

Forgot to mention this. I only found this out last night. Did you know that Biden lost it with Zelensky at couple of times behind closed doors because of his demanding more and more from America and then going in front of the cameras and continuing his PR role.

And did you know that Zelensky campaigned with Josh Shapiro against Trump in the run up to the November election? If you did fair play to you. I didn't. But I doubt the media in Ireland and Britain told the public that? And if not, why not?

[seanfhear]

Forgot to mention this. I only found this out last night. Did you know that Biden lost it with Zelensky at couple of times behind closed doors because of his demanding more and more from America and then going in front of the cameras and continuing his PR role.

And did you know that Zelensky campaigned with Josh Shapiro against Trump in the run up to the November election? If you did fair play to you. I didn't. But I doubt the media in Ireland and Britain told the public that? And if not, why not?

It looks more and more that ~ Zelensky is Not the sharpest tool in the box !

[Fizzer]

He’s probably capable of typing a coherent sentence though.

[Razors left peg]

I got an eye opener ten days/two weeks ago when I was sitting in a house in Ireland. It was the day when the ceasefire agreement in Gaza had stalled. Trump's image came on the TV and all of a sudden the volume is turned up. Trump said words to the effect that all hell would break loose if the hostages were not released by 12 o'clock on the following Saturday. And the people in the house were totally appalled. How could he possibly say that? Does he have no compassion? What is he thinking? It was as plain as day to me who Trump was talking to. It wasn't people in Ireland or Europe, but he was speaking instead to Hamas. And he was speaking a language they would understand. And that Saturday the hostages were released. But that sound bite on RTE or Sky or BBC was followed by as many "expert" commentators they could find who did nothing but question Trump's words in as critical a tone as possible.

And right there I discovered why opinions in Ireland differ so drastically from those in America (for context Trump is getting a lot of plaudits for how he handled Zelensky yesterday). You have no balanced media in Ireland (which includes British TV). It is one way of thinking and that's it. Here in America we have what you have essentially plus a contrasting viewpoint. And the viewers can form their own options.

Small thing you're missing there dude is that I live in the US. I'm a US citizen and see what all the coverage is. News here is despicable. People watch whatever channel backs up their opinion and only reinforces what they want. So I'm assuming you watch Fox News all day to get your balanced views... a company that when sued for defamation had the defense in court that "as they are purely entertainment nothing that they say can be taken seriously... and they won.


https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/91774...ay-fox-s-lawye


I don't watch any news here now for those exact reasons. But I will tell you I got a message last night from a neighbor. He's a gun tote:n, big hat wearing cowboy, who has been a republican all his life. The exact message was "So fcking embarrassed by the orange idiot". I just replied and said that I basically told you so before the election, but I did think it was interesting that he of all people messaged me.

So keep thinking your Orange hero is infallible, but don't believe he has the full support of all Americans.

Edit: Russian State TV (TASS) were in the Oval office yesterday, but Reuters and AP weren't allowed by Trump... free press huh?

[tetsujin1979]

Ireland ranked eighth in the world in Press Freedom, United States at 55th, just ahead of Gabon and Mauritius, and behind Belize and the Ivory Coast
https://rsf.org/en/index?year=2024

Trump has said several times during this process that he wants to achieve peace. He also said to Zelensky yesterday that he (Zelensky) wanted to keep the war going instead of achieving peace and that's something he (Trump) wasn't interested in doing. He also said that if Zelensky wants to keep on fighting then let him do that. And as far as MEGAN'S position on Ukraine.....are you forgetting the javelin missiles Trump gave them in 2018? Does that sound like someone who wants the Russians to take back Ukraine or someone who is bought and paid for by Putin?

Funny you mention those javelin missiles. When Trump was approached in 2019 for missiles, he withheld them unless Zelenskyy could provide him with assistance against Joe Biden in the 2020 Presidential Election, which led to the his first impeachment.

Recently, Trump has cancelled all planning on Russian cyber attacks, called Zelenskyy a dictator, and said that the Ukrainian president started the war against Russia.
Even if he's not "bought and sold" by Putin, he's doing a lot that Putin approves of.

[osarusan]

Yes indeed, if only Ireland had high quality media like the USA does.

[mark12345]

Ireland ranked eighth in the world in Press Freedom, United States at 55th, just ahead of Gabon and Mauritius, and behind Belize and the Ivory Coast
https://rsf.org/en/index?year=2024

And yet you have no counterbalance to the liberal media in Ireland. Those rankings really mean an awful lot.

[mark12345]

Yes indeed, if only Ireland had high quality media like the USA does.

This is something I heard last night, and Tucker Carlson picks up on it today (text below in quotation marks is his post). Isn't it great that we all are able to get the same information - we have our guys over here and you have RTE.

"One of the most striking things about yesterday’s Zelensky press conference was Lindsey Graham’s reaction to it. The two are old friends, but Graham disavowed him within the hour. This was more than just transactional disloyalty. It was scapegoating. Lindsey Graham knows what’s coming. Over the past three years, with the tacit support of its western patrons, the Ukrainian government has committed a remarkable number of serious crimes. The Ukrainians sold huge quantities of American weapons on the international black market at twenty cents on the dollar. These weapons are now in the hands of armed groups around the world, including Hamas, the Mexican drug cartels and the forces now controlling Syria. God knows what the Ukrainians have done with the pathogens in American biolabs in their country. Even US intel agencies aren’t sure. The Ukrainians have also murdered a number of people in various countries in political assassinations, and tried to murder others, including American journalists and a European head of state. This is all true, and it’s all going to come out at some point. Better to start blaming it on Zelensky now."

[tetsujin1979]

And yet you have no counterbalance to the liberal media in Ireland. Those rankings really mean an awful lot.

They mean there's more press freedom in Ireland

This is something I heard last night, and Tucker Carlson picks up on it today (text below in quotation marks is his post). Isn't it great that we all are able to get the same information - we have our guys over here and you have RTE.

"One of the most striking things about yesterday’s Zelensky press conference was Lindsey Graham’s reaction to it. The two are old friends, but Graham disavowed him within the hour. This was more than just transactional disloyalty. It was scapegoating. Lindsey Graham knows what’s coming. Over the past three years, with the tacit support of its western patrons, the Ukrainian government has committed a remarkable number of serious crimes. The Ukrainians sold huge quantities of American weapons on the international black market at twenty cents on the dollar. These weapons are now in the hands of armed groups around the world, including Hamas, the Mexican drug cartels and the forces now controlling Syria. God knows what the Ukrainians have done with the pathogens in American biolabs in their country. Even US intel agencies aren’t sure. The Ukrainians have also murdered a number of people in various countries in political assassinations, and tried to murder others, including American journalists and a European head of state. This is all true, and it’s all going to come out at some point. Better to start blaming it on Zelensky now."

Do any RTE journalists have a court case in their history that includes the following quote
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ox-Opinion.pdf
(See page 12)

Fox persuasively argues, given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer “arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism” about the statements he makes.

[Razors left peg]

Invoking Tucker Carlson into the discussion shows how pointless it is even having a conversation with you Mark. The man has zero credibility, see my above piece that I referred to in regards to Libel trial

Sorry just seen Tets reference same trial

[mark12345]

Invoking Tucker Carlson into the discussion shows how pointless it is even having a conversation with you Mark. The man has zero credibility, see my above piece that I referred to in regards to Libel trial

Sorry just seen Tets reference same trial

I can't open the link but I believe he's referring to the suing of Fox News for comments Tucker made about the Dominion machines that counted votes in 2020?

I take it you don't know the back story of that? Fox was sued by Dominion but both companies are owned by Blackrock. So Blackrock was essentially suing itself and the money that was paid out would have been written off as a business expense. So essentially no harm no foul while the public was left believing it was a massive embarrassed for Fox.

Fox wanted to get rid of Carlson because he was getting too close to matters they didn't want to discuss like the 44k hours of tape which showed January 6 in a completely different light. Tucker began to release them on his show until Chuck Schumer went on the Senate floor and strongly suggested to Fox that they stop Carlson from releasing any more. Why would he do that?

Hopefully at this point you are getting a sense of Tuckers credibility versus what you and I have been led to believe?

Tuckers credibility and popularity went through the roof after he left Fox. If he had no credibility why would many top figures in America allow
Themselves to be interviewed by him?

I take it that you are unaware that the mainstream media in America is dying a death right now? Their leading figures like Lester Holt, Jim Acosta, Cuomo, Joy Reid and the members of The View have all been let go or had their salaries reduced. That's because viewership is way down and the confidence the public have in traditional media is at an all time low. Meanwhile Carlson and Joe Rogan are standing strong.

Doesn't take a wage but charges the Secret Service to stay in his hotels and protect him golfing.
https://www.citizensforethics.org/re...mp-properties/

Keep believing the grifter sure

What's the problem? The Secret Service has a budget for stays in hotels be they Trump's or anyone else's.
But the larger point was you saying that Trump is bought and paid for by Putin. You still think that?
Remember the Russia hoax that paralyzed Trump for 3 years of his first tenure? That really bore fruit didn't it?

[tetsujin1979]

Seems like you don't know much about the ownership of BlackRock and Fox either
From https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...angling-a-web/

BlackRock, a large financial investment management company, owns shares of Fox Corp., but not Dominion Voting Systems.

BlackRock owns about 59 million shares of the company Dominion Energy. We found nothing to suggest that the energy company and voting technology company were connected beyond sharing a similar name.

[mark12345]

Bessent brought a draft to Kyiv, not the final agreement. It was rejected because it would have meant signing 50% of Ukraine's mineral wealth to the United States.
There's no indication it was going to be signed in Munich
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...13-p5lbxo.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ves-rcna192426
https://kyivindependent.com/us-treas...ical-minerals/
https://time.com/7260890/zelensky-mi...-negotiations/

Bessent has a slightly different take on it. And it begs the question if Zelensky wouldn't sign it in Kiev or Munich then why the heck did he go to Washington on Friday? Looking more and more like a publicity stunt to me.

I have a hunch, and it's only that, but I would say we will see plenty of favorable references to Zelensky at tonight's Oscars, and possibly a satellite link up with him? Who knows? He tried to get on the show in 2023. I would also suggest there will be condemnation of Trump in equal measure and the whole deal will be all over our TV's tomorrow morning.

Seems like you don't know much about the ownership of BlackRock and Fox either
From https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...angling-a-web/

You are a man of sources, I'll give you that. Problem is many of them are bogus.
The picture is becoming quite clear at this point. You, who live in Ireland, are right about everything that goes on in America.
And I, who live in America, am wrong about everything that goes on here.
I bow to your superiority.

[John83]

Nice appeal to authority there. Seems very on-brand these days.