Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[nigel-harps1954]

The only way stadia in Ireland will get improved is with strict capacity cuts, safe capacity figures, closing poor stands, refusing licences to unfit grounds forcing potential fround shares.

The onus is on clubs to apply for grants, and push for ground improvements. Sligo led the way for how they've done it. In other cases, approaching councils to do the work has also proven successful.

But licencing is too soft, safe capacity figures are too high in some cases, and others are just too comfortable in sub standard stadia.

[redobit]

The only way stadia in Ireland will get improved is with strict capacity cuts, safe capacity figures, closing poor stands, refusing licences to unfit grounds forcing potential fround shares.

The onus is on clubs to apply for grants, and push for ground improvements. Sligo led the way for how they've done it. In other cases, approaching councils to do the work has also proven successful.

To a point. As far as I know if the clubs wanted to apply for the sports grants they needed to apply through the FAI. Given what we know now it is hard to know what happened with grants and where any money went. Hopefully that will change now.

You mentioned The Showgrounds improvements. Its far from perfect tbh, but when we had our success we put money into infrastructure. The money came from prize money but some cute people in the club also used the success/ good will to get local companies to invest. There was no huge donations but they all added up if you can get enough people. As well as that The Showgrounds is probably as important to Sligo Rovers fans as the club is. Maybe that sounds odd but there couldn't be one without the other. The fans bought it, its ours same as the club and the people of Sligo are extremely proud of that, so fans are willing to invest in it. Which probably isint the same for any other club in the league.

[Mr A]

On the above- it's true that clubs now have to apply via FAI. For the Harps project we had to reapply when old National Development Plan ended and new one began via the FAI.

Piece in Irish Times on Harps and league's general situation. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...urse-1.4168910

[Paulgufc]

Cobh have raised almost 2k for their dugouts. Nice to see LOI fans helping one of the smaller clubs

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Drogs looking into installing an artificial pitch in United Park. If its a good quality one it's probably a smart move for the club given the FAI probably won't be in a position to help with their potential new ground anytime soon and I remains to be seen where the government will spend whatever money it has left after this.

https://twitter.com/DroghedaUnited/s...099549184?s=19

[Nesta99]

Drogs looking into installing an artificial pitch in United Park. If its a good quality one it's probably a smart move for the club given the FAI probably won't be in a position to help with their potential new ground anytime soon and I remains to be seen where the government will spend whatever money it has left after this.

https://twitter.com/DroghedaUnited/s...099549184?s=19

Oh the irony!! During a survey of United Park when working with LCC Terry Collins (I think is his surname) stated that Drogheda United would never need to opt for an artificial surface as unlike Dundalk they didnt need the additional income from pitch rental. He spent more time taking swipes at Dundalk than he did on DUFC being reigning champions for the 1st time. I wouldnt mind bumping in to him again to ask his thoughts on the matter!

As we all know too well, the time it takes for stadium development can be eternal. That said Id question the thinking behind spending signiicant money installing a new pitch in United Park when plans for a move away from United Park are quite progressed since LCC provided a new site. DUFC must not consider the move feasible which is a little odd as the Dept of Health have been jumping up and down waiting to acquire United Park for expansion to the hospital. All pre covid-19 costs of course.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Oh the irony!! During a survey of United Park when working with LCC Terry Collins (I think is his surname) stated that Drogheda United would never need to opt for an artificial surface as unlike Dundalk they didnt need the additional income from pitch rental. He spent more time taking swipes at Dundalk than he did on DUFC being reigning champions for the 1st time. I wouldnt mind bumping in to him again to ask his thoughts on the matter!

As we all know too well, the time it takes for stadium development can be eternal. That said Id question the thinking behind spending signiicant money installing a new pitch in United Park when plans for a move away from United Park are quite progressed since LCC provided a new site. DUFC must not consider the move feasible which is a little odd as the Dept of Health have been jumping up and down waiting to acquire United Park for expansion to the hospital. All pre covid-19 costs of course.

Agree with the second part, don't know the ins and outs regarding the site but if it's secure you'd imagine it would make more sense to build the artificial pitch there now, even if there's nothing else there bar maybe prefabs for changing rooms and toilets. You'd have the same income potential but much lower overheads in the longer term I'd imagine

[oriel]

I never thought a new stadium would have been built in Drogheda, just don't see what demand there is for it, but it is a pity there is almost no scope for development where they are. Maybe if they knocked one side down completely that might work. They also need to re-apply for that bar licence, thats a ridicolous waste of revenue being idle for so long.

As for the artificial pitch, thanfully these are now mostly good standard, the two DFC had from 2005 up to end of 2017 were not good, especially the former one. The version they installed in Jan/Feb 2018 was at least a good quality, then again you get what you pay for, that cost 500k I think. The version that Derry have is the same I think. One to note that is the worst quality from this era is outside the league, Cliftonville, looks dreadful.

On the subject of renting these out, not so sure thats a goer these days, as most big GAA clubs have ones now, and demand is down, I don't even think Dundalk rent it out, as its used daily for training for home games, even in the week for away games when they use the grass pitch behdin the away goal, they would stiill be 'on site'. plus I think the main other users are now for community purposes.

I think after C-19 there will be a big scale back in public funding, we could all be back to another income levy (700k currently in receipt of some sort of welfare - its not free money), so not sure they'll be much left over for anything other than modest sports grants, stadia funding will be well down a long list, if not completely cancelled.

[Nesta99]

I never thought a new stadium would have been built in Drogheda, just don't see what demand there is for it, but it is a pity there is almost no scope for development where they are. Maybe if they knocked one side down completely that might work. They also need to re-apply for that bar licence, thats a ridicolous waste of revenue being idle for so long.

As for the artificial pitch, thanfully these are now mostly good standard, the two DFC had from 2005 up to end of 2017 were not good, especially the former one. The version they installed in Jan/Feb 2018 was at least a good quality, then again you get what you pay for, that cost 500k I think. The version that Derry have is the same I think. One to note that is the worst quality from this era is outside the league, Cliftonville, looks dreadful.

On the subject of renting these out, not so sure thats a goer these days, as most big GAA clubs have ones now, and demand is down, I don't even think Dundalk rent it out, as its used daily for training for home games, even in the week for away games when they use the grass pitch behdin the away goal, they would stiill be 'on site'. plus I think the main other users are now for community purposes.

I think after C-19 there will be a big scale back in public funding, we could all be back to another income levy (700k currently in receipt of some sort of welfare - its not free money), so not sure they'll be much left over for anything other than modest sports grants, stadia funding will be well down a long list, if not completely cancelled.

Any development at United Park is a non-runner, similar to the County ground proposal behind United Park. There is recognition that this would permantly landlock OLOL. They want the site but want ownership straight off. DUFC wanted a new ground open before vacating U.P. So things stalled for a while for that and that LCC would then look for some payment for the site provided out of sny sale money. The solution proposed was a groundshare possibly at Oriel while the new place was being worked on. DUFC didnt seem to want to groundshare and tbh if it was to do with needing gate receipt income I can understand that as attendances would be nonexistant especially if playng in Dundalk.

The planned devekopment is one 2k capacity stand and associated works which would be sufficient especially if a Limerick style stand or one behind goal terrace for away support was also done with a small stand allocation to away fans. The days of DUFC planning a complete new ground (with 30k housing and retail units - yes 30k) have finally been binned and one stand would do. There is still a possibility of their project happening in the medium term as they have a willing buyer for their ground already and the FAI generously agreed that all the would want is the £30k that they payed for United Park to bail DUFC out of trouble early 90s. The FAI were looking to change that agreement a few years ago I preesume to try and eek out a slice of the sale for their own coffers, but the original agreement is nw being honoured. Im sure United Park would sell at a decent price to get at least the basics of a new ground in place so with not being entirely dependant on SCG I just think it odd to be investing circa €500k on something that could be torn up again in the future. As RH said, installing it at the new site would make more sense to me albeit not knowing the ins and outs of it all. There isnt the same level of demand for pitch rental that there was when Oriel had the pitch installed but there is some demand and a saving in maintenance and renting training facilities.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Obviously Louth isn't on the same scale as Dublin but here all artificial pitches are in near constant use, tends to part of planning permission for floodlights that pitches be open to wider community.

Obviously being a LOI club the status of the first team will determine when they train so will determine who they target to use the pitch.

[Nesta99]

DIFE has just put in an artificial pitch and its practically beside United Park. Drogheda Grammar School have one also, there are a few small 5 a side pitches. Certainly no municipal facility. There is a shortage of full size picthes of any type in Drogheda (Drogheda Town FC and DUFC even push the 'full size' limit though are good surfaces) so it could be an earner but again mainly if it is not in U.P. Having 2 picthes within a few minutes walk if one goes in to United Park wouldnt be ideal.

The Astro Dome at DkIT Sport doesnt seem to have the demand it used to but I havent been there during an evening. I also thought that it was Dundalk FC that cut back on Oriel pitch availability as much as a lack of demand - those floodlights I sure cost a good bit to run and they are on nearly every evening. There is the municipal pitch at Dundalk Sports Centre that is busy in the evenings.

[wonder88]

Scannal programme on RTE1 tonight is covering the Bertie Bowl at 8pm. It could be interesting, there is certainly a story here and how things get done in Ireland. I remember being against it at the time. Reason being I wanted soccer to have our own ground, but mostly due to the arrangement where the consultant/project manager was paid on the basis of a percentage of the cost. So the higher the cost the more the consultant got paid.
Looking back, I think Bertie might have had the right idea. Did the state really get value for money from the Aviva? A large stadium owned by the FAI was never realistic I feel now. Loads of other questions as well, the interest of some of the opponents etc. Be interesting how much the programme covers anyway.

[Martinho II]

Scannal programme on RTE1 tonight is covering the Bertie Bowl at 8pm. It could be interesting, there is certainly a story here and how things get done in Ireland. I remember being against it at the time. Reason being I wanted soccer to have our own ground, but mostly due to the arrangement where the consultant/project manager was paid on the basis of a percentage of the cost. So the higher the cost the more the consultant got paid.
Looking back, I think Bertie might have had the right idea. Did the state really get value for money from the Aviva? A large stadium owned by the FAI was never realistic I feel now. Loads of other questions as well, the interest of some of the opponents etc. Be interesting how much the programme covers anyway.

Yeah I remember this controversy all right but never fully understood it. Cheers for the reminder will watch this!

[John83]

Was the Bertie Bowl programme any good? Learn anything?

[wonder88]

I suppose there wasn't much new in it, for those who remember the times. No discussion at all on the lucrative consultant contract, which I think was fairly central to the saga. The offer of 11 million for the league of Ireland/grassroots to get on board with the Campus was a quite substantial sum, if put into facilities could certainly have a positive effect. Interesting to see a certain John Delaney of the anti-Eircom Park side of the FAI explain how they saved the organisation from going bankrupt. This i suppose was the highlight.
There is an extended interview with Bertie on the rte player, which I haven't watched yet.
It would have been impossible to cover the story in any detail in 30 minute programme anyway.

[Kingdom]

I suppose there wasn't much new in it, for those who remember the times. No discussion at all on the lucrative consultant contract, which I think was fairly central to the saga. The offer of 11 million for the league of Ireland/grassroots to get on board with the Campus was a quite substantial sum, if put into facilities could certainly have a positive effect. Interesting to see a certain John Delaney of the anti-Eircom Park side of the FAI explain how they saved the organisation from going bankrupt. This i suppose was the highlight.
There is an extended interview with Bertie on the rte player, which I haven't watched yet.
It would have been impossible to cover the story in any detail in 30 minute programme anyway.

I've no idea of your age, or profession, so you could be much better placed to debate this than me, but I don't really think the consultancy contract was anything to do with it. The simple fact of the matter was that Croker was planning towards being a fully-seated stadium (the GAA were exploring the Hill End possibilities), the IRFU was going to be redeveloping Lansdowne at some point, and the idea of the FAI going alone on a modestly sized stadium, would have put paid to any dreams of a Bertie Bowl.
I think - but could be wrong - that eircom Park was being built on a site the FAI owned (out at Newlands-ish) and wasn't going to be a huge stadium by any stretch of the imagination (think 38-40k was the capacity).

It would have been an infinitely better deal than the one we've ended up with, whereby we are broke anyway, but only have a temporary leasehold.
I read as well that the Bertie Bowl would have been spec'd out to cater for GAA as well, which would have made football matches as horrible in it, as they were in Croker.
It is one of the things that absolutely sickens me, is the use of land and resources at home.

[Martinho II]

I've no idea of your age, or profession, so you could be much better placed to debate this than me, but I don't really think the consultancy contract was anything to do with it. The simple fact of the matter was that Croker was planning towards being a fully-seated stadium (the GAA were exploring the Hill End possibilities), the IRFU was going to be redeveloping Lansdowne at some point, and the idea of the FAI going alone on a modestly sized stadium, would have put paid to any dreams of a Bertie Bowl.
I think - but could be wrong - that eircom Park was being built on a site the FAI owned (out at Newlands-ish) and wasn't going to be a huge stadium by any stretch of the imagination (think 38-40k was the capacity).

Yeah correct as the documentary said that the FAI site would have being at Citywest which is the exact same area. I thought it was an excellent documentary at it summed up the whole deal perfectly!

[wonder88]

The FAI didn't own the land Eircom Park was to be on, had an option. It is where City West Hotel is. The IRFU owned land at Newlands Cross, but at the time they were fully behind the Bertie Bowl. Sold it over a year ago for 25million profit.

Good article here on the saga https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020...e-bertie-bowl/

The contract for the consultant, where the bigger the cost the more she got paid, had a big negative influence on public opinion towards the project. Also awarding the contract to run the swimming pool to a shelf company didn't help either.

Bertie current proposal for 25,000 capacity stadium for Dublin has some merit, could be handy for League of Ireland teams in Europe etc.

[pineapple stu]

You'd need a pretty big "etc" to justify that stadium. Probably Legia, Juve and Spurs are the only two games in the past decade that could have been moved to a 25k ground - and even then there's a strong argument to keep games in Tallaght/Oriel where possible for home advantage.

[wonder88]

FAI Cup finals and pre-season friendlies v example Chelsea last summer. Dublin gaa footballers league games. Other inter-county gaa, plus athletics.