QuotePlease tell me that was sarcastic?? The guy says he doesn't know the full facts, just what he's read and says Zayed must be talking BS/taking something out of context! That man would be scary if he was in a position of power!
Good article by Dessie Baker. It was interesting to read that Mark Rurtherford got the most abuse when he played at the Brandywell !Originally Posted by SkStu
Please tell me that was sarcastic?? The guy says he doesn't know the full facts, just what he's read and says Zayed must be talking BS/taking something out of context! That man would be scary if he was in a position of power!
Just to clear up our part in this whole thing, we made our feelings known through the medium of a chant last night
'We're not racists, We're Anti Zayed'
Here on a technicality.
They wouldn't be the first or last there.It wasnt one fan fighting with stewards though
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
Hmm, maybe what the Rovers player said was a pathetic attempt at a joke given the reports of racist abuse from the Pats game? And sure that'd be grand then; he would have been just having a laugh...
Seriously though, I'll need this fan's attempt at a joke explained to me, because jokes can be racist too and I find it hard to see how wearing a tea-towel in this context could be anything other than racist.
It's an awful article. Baker is in no position to pontificate on how Zayed should react to racist abuse just because Mark Rutherford was victim to similar abuse in the Brandywell a few years ago and "took it on the chin". It's a shame that Rutherford had to feel that way, as if he would have been the one who was out of order by challenging the apparent status quo in football. Abuse to which Baker himself has fallen victim isn't relevant at all; he's a fool to mention it. I'd bet he's never been victim to racist abuse in a football ground in his life. If racist abuse is endemic in football, then those victim to it just take it on the chin, we all sweep it under the carpet and move on until the next time it happens? The notion is condescending and an insult to the senses. If it isn't really a problem, then why raise the Mark Rutherford issue at all? Clearly, there was a problem then - whether Rutherford wished to make a big deal out of it or not - and there is a problem now that needs stamped out. Why should something so insulting as racism, or homophobia even, ever be accepted as inherently "part and parcel" of football? Ought the game live in the dark ages just because "that's the way it's always been"? If that docile and submissive attitude was applied to real life, African-Americans would still be living as slaves to their white masters.
Not being a racist but...
Are you black?
seriously, climb down off your high horse for once Danny. I would like the attempt at a joke explained to me too, as would most of the Bohs fans who were there last night. But if you cant see the difference between a direct racial slur as alledged by Zayed and a tasteless, tongue in cheek (for want of a better expression) jibe at the hysteria surrounding the events of the week then im not going to bother explaining it to you. Absolutely stupid as jokes go - yes - but it was hardly Bernard effing Manning now, was it?
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
This whole affair in a word.
What would me being black or not have to do with anything? We're all human, aren't we? Clearly Zayed has taken offence from a remark intended to insult him. He's within his rights to make an issue of it. In fact, I think he should make an issue of it if successful attempts are to be made at stamping out something that idiots like Dessie Baker assume to be "part and parcel" of the game, as if racism is OK, just so long as it's in the football ground. Opinions like that need to be challenged as well. And it's not getting on a high horse to see a problem with it.
It might not be at the Bernard Manning end of the spectrum, but why are we introducing a scale at all? If the chap's joke was a daft attempt at satire, fair enough - I'm a big fan of the incendiary Chris Morris - but if the league is serious about stamping out racism, that includes all racism; not just Manningesque racism. Casual racism is just as unsavoury and unpleasant for those concerned as overt racism.
Now, can you give me a hand down? My bloody foot is stuck in this stirrup.
I tend to agree but something tells me that if it was a Rovers fan with a teatowel on his head you would have a very different viewpoint on it.
Im not introducing a scale. Im just pointing out that its not racism, casual or otherwise. It was just a daft, cheap attempt to get a laugh that went down like a lead balloon.What would me being black or not have to do with anything? We're all human, aren't we? Clearly Zayed has taken offence from a remark intended to insult him. He's within his rights to make an issue of it. In fact, I think he should make an issue of it if successful attempts are to be made at stamping out something that idiots like Dessie Baker assume to be "part and parcel" of the game, as if racism is OK, just so long as it's in the football ground. Opinions like that need to be challenged as well. And it's not getting on a high horse to see a problem with it.
It might not be at the Bernard Manning end of the spectrum, but why are we introducing a scale at all? If the chap's joke was a daft attempt at satire, fair enough - I'm a big fan of the incendiary Chris Morris - but if the league is serious about stamping out racism, that includes all racism; not just Manningesque racism. Casual racism is just as unsavoury and unpleasant for those concerned as overt racism.
Now, can you give me a hand down? My bloody foot is stuck in this stirrup.
I cant reach that high - its a bloody big horse.
definitely.
no, just joking HH - to be honest, id probably just not comment on it. Although, believe it or not, there have been times when ive agreed with Rovers fans on here. Even this whole Turner/Zayed thing, i dont blame Rovers or fans for that. If true, its just down to individual cretinous behaviour. I dont see any need to be critical of Rovers fans or club on this occasion.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
So it's all ok?
Suppose we should be grateful he didn't get out the boot polish?
what a bizarre post.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
If this is true then once again serious questions have to be asked about Derry Citys' ability to host matches at The Brandywell given the policing situation. I mean how the hell does somebody get a knive into a football ground??
Or maybe I'm just spouting hysterical drivel.
I could actually genuinely list 101 things here off the top of my head that are more important for the league to be doing than STAMPING OUT the largely non existent RACISM.
17 (SEVENTEEN) pages, grips need to be gotten all round I feel.
just to provide some context, the allegation was posted by someone with 2 posts on the Derry fans forum. Here is an account from 2 Bohs fans who saw the encounter...If this is true then once again serious questions have to be asked about Derry Citys' ability to host matches at The Brandywell given the policing situation. I mean how the hell does somebody get a knive into a football ground??
Or maybe I'm just spouting hysterical drivel.
I'll clear this one up. I left for the chipper at half time to which this little ***** in his barstooler jacket called me and i quote "a free state sell out *******" whilst wearing a liverpool top
Too which i responded by calling him a scouser ***** and because i was alone his mates got brave. A few Bohs fans came over then when they seen what was going on and they ****ed off crying to the stewards then. Btw thanks to the lads who came over could of turned nasty on myself otherwise.
Not once was there a mention of a knife let alone one pulled who utter fantasist.do people really think that Bohs fans take knives to grounds on the off chance they get to dish out some rough justice to barstoolers?Someone mentioned earlier that on the Derry forum one of the people on that forum accussed a Bohs fan of calling a young Derry fan in a Liverpool tracksuit a scouser and then taking out a knife. That is not what happened at all. I was right beside him and what happened was that the Bohs fan in question goes, "What part of Liverpool are you from?" after the kid was giving it loads about us losing at half-time. Unless I got a touch of the Stevie Wonder's for a split second, there was absolutley no knife at all.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
I agree with you on this, but for different reasonS.
It's surely common sense that if a Pat's fan was guilty of racism against Zayed, he deserves to be punished. Likewise for the Rovers player, if it's true that he did so. Bohs fan with the towel misguided, and I personally wouldn't mind whether he's punished or let off, as both could be justified because I doubt there was malice in it.
Either way, this thread has gone on a bit too long, and it's threatened to - and carried through with - turning into a bitter inter-club snipefest that has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with 'I don't like your club' at times.
Surely we all agree that racism is wrong, and that's that?
Sounds good to medo people really think that Bohs fans take knives to grounds on the off chance they get to dish out some rough justice to barstoolers?
[/JOKE]
No more bizarre than your claim that it was only a joke and therefore not racist.
Intent is neither here nor there, in any of this, it's all about perception.
So if you can agree that this joke was in poor taste. Can you agree that a joke involving a 'racial stereotype' could be perceived to be racist? If so it should be condemned rather than condoned, in any manner.
Or is your defense along the line trotted out elsewhere in this thread, that it had nothing to do with a physical feature shared by people with common ancestry, and is therefore somehow acceptable. If so I wonder where you draw line?
Would it have been racist if he got out the boot polish and blacked up?
Maybe it was a plastic knife from the chip van?
Seriously though, I wouldn't imagine it to be overly difficult. That's assuming there was a knife in a fan's possession, although that has been disputed. It's not as if metal detectors at the gates or full body-searches by the gardaí are the norm now at grounds around the country.
I don't think anyone is saying that racism is the only problem the league might have, or even that it's its most significant. It is clearly existent though, and just because there are other significant issues that ought to be dealt with as well, it's no reason to dismiss the importance of the issue of racism or sweep it under the carpet. Zayed claims to have been racially abused twice in the past fortnight and that's ignoring a Bohs fan wearing a tea-towel on his head in the Brandywell the other night who, if we're to give the benefit of the doubt, was apparently making some ill-thought satirical statement on the media's reporting of the issue. We even have Dessie Baker telling us racist abuse is "part and parcel" of the game so we should all just accept it and those subjected to it "take it on the chin". Bewildering.
go ahead and get all outraged about it then. Ive made my thoughts pretty clear and it seems that some posters are in agreement with it so thats enough for me. You cant take "a joke involving a 'racial stereotype'" out of the context of what happened before. In isolation it is undoubtedly a racist gesture. Put into context it is not racist and is more along the lines of that which i have outlined previously. If that fan had wanted to racially attacked Eamon Zayed he would have hidden himself amongst the crowd and made his points a bit clearer.
Fine if you disagree and want to get offended. Go ahead.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
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