Middle East on fire - should we worry

[Spudulika]

Thank you! I knew I'd read it years ago, I remember some old Arab guy finding a bomb, then how peace arrives in Jerusalem and so on. Not a great piece of work, but good fun.

I'm going to re-read his Red Storm Rising. I read it by chance back in 1996 when I first moved to Canada and it felt so real and plausible. Don't like the man's politics too much, but his theories are interesting.

[peadar1987]

Peadar you're speaking complete sense! I don't know if you mean Israel's right to rule over the Middle East or the Islamic radicals, if it's the former I think you mean the holy land which is where they're at right now, if it's the latter you couldn't be more wrong - they want to rule the world, though they'll take the ME for now.

I was talking about the Israelis. Many Jewish people and conservative christians have a nasty habit of justifying everything they do on religious grounds. Unfortunately they're a very important voting bloc in the US, so the US government has few qualms about sacrificing a few thousand Palestinians in return for a few million votes.

Of course I say you couldn't be more wrong as a joke, I've traveled throughout the region, lived there and just saw the great differences from country to country. This summer I was in Libya for the first time and while I'm not a fan of Ghaddafi, I could see how the islam practiced there was far more open and progressive than in (for example) Egypt or Algeria. At least religion was well monitored in the state. Again, I think Ghaddafi is not a nice person and the country is a nervous wreck, though the outrages of radicals are kept well out of the way.

I still think compromise is the best route. Imposing Western Democracy is clearly not the best route for peace in the Middle East. Obviously there will still be a fringe of lunatics, but having, say, a constitution that confirms the rights of women, and non-Muslims, while having an elected upper house of religious leaders, would bring a lot more Muslims on board.

You've hit a good note with an honest broker role, though China, it's food for thought. I had a very weird experience in Sudan back in 2002, standing in a dusty desert town trying to figure how I was going to catch a lorry bus when three impeccably turned out Chinese (in shiny suits) appeared with brief cases and looked at me as if I were out of place. It was +35 and I was melting, these guys in their shiny acrylic suits must have been liquid. Up pulls a large Nissan Patrol, they jumped in and disappeared. Apparently they were in doing deals and had that air of neutrality and honesty, according to some I spoke with. The Japanese would also be decent with no religious ties whatsoever (there is a substantial muslim population in China so this might be a hold up). I can't remember where I read it, could have been a novel, but the Swiss Guards have been suggested as peacekeepers as the head of the Catholic church carries relatively good weight and has good relations with Jewish and Islamic leaders. Though hand on heart, I just can't see anything being enough for the hard core on either side.

I think a major part of the problem is the obviously biased nature of the US's dealings with the Middle East over the last 60 years. The Israelis will expect a continuation of the support they have received, while the Palestinians will want someone who will treat them as they've seen the Israelis being treated.

You're right about Japan though, there'd also be less of a perception that they were using the deal as some sort of ploy in becoming a superpower. There's an awful lot of distrust of China in the US, Japan, not so much.

[paudie]

Mubarak has resigned with a "Military Council" taking over for now. Rejoicing in the streets but seems to be no real idea where things will go from here. Presidential elections due in september this year.

[Spudulika]

We wait and see. Arrests supposedly taking place of protestors. The last thing the Military want is to have radicals on board, it could be another Turkey or even Jordan.

[Spudulika]

Libya in total chaos, 2 colleagues are holed up at the international airport waiting to leave after running gun battles in Tripoli between rival factions - they don't know if the inbound flight from Malta will actually arrive. The sons look to be starting their own civil war. I keep wondering when the media luvvies will actually wake the heck up to this. Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq, Jordan, Libya - lots of fun.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...s-of-civil-war

[Sean South]

I was watching that fascist Glenn Beck the other night where he was comparing the coming of the 12th imam to the coming of satin. I think I'd be more worried about America if people actually believe stuff like that then what's happening in the Arab world at the moment.

[peadar1987]

I was watching that fascist Glenn Beck the other night where he was comparing the coming of the 12th imam to the coming of satin. I think I'd be more worried about America if people actually believe stuff like that then what's happening in the Arab world at the moment.

Glenn Beck would be hilarious if so many people didn't hang on his every word. Saying things like "Obama is looking at providing health care for everyone. You know who else tried to do that? Hitler!"

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/s...eck-quotes.htm

[punkrocket]

I'm getting a bit worried about the price of diesel.

[SkStu]

Glen Beck is the most insufferable expletive ever.

[superfrank]

Anybody wanting decent coverage of what's going on in the Middle East should watch Al Jazeera English. They've wall-to-wall coverage of Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Iraq, all of them. AFAIK, it's free to all Sky customers on ch. 514. I've been getting a feeling of smug righteousness about the whole thing from Western media.

I'd be pretty concerned by Gaddafi saying he'd open the armories and hand out the weapons to those who stayed loyal to him. It seems like he wants to go all out to try and crush the revolt.

[dancinpants]

go all out to try and crush the revolt.

or go out in a blaze of glory...which could be worse :/

[Spudulika]

Anybody wanting decent coverage of what's going on in the Middle East should watch Al Jazeera English. They've wall-to-wall coverage of Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Iraq, all of them. AFAIK, it's free to all Sky customers on ch. 514. I've been getting a feeling of smug righteousness about the whole thing from Western media.

I'd be pretty concerned by Gaddafi saying he'd open the armories and hand out the weapons to those who stayed loyal to him. It seems like he wants to go all out to try and crush the revolt.

While I agree with you, Al Jazeera would also be a little one sided, plus there are so many sides to this whole mess. I met a friend this morning in London who luckily (as he has a UK passport) escaped and feels that now as a refugee he'll never see Libya again. As he said, a big push came on from either side of Libya, armed mercenary groups joined in and there is so much going on that the "west" is not being told. Russia Today (www.rt.com) were doing some good reports until 2 days ago (I haven't watched since) and since they have an Arabic channel they're right inside the situation. There is a whole heap of Russian commercial interest there - I was shocked back in July to see the Russian Railways symbol all around the place - and this was a major bone of contention as they won the contract to build the railways and rolling stock in Libya at the expense of the French and Spanish.

Oh, and some of what Ghaddafi is saying is being deliberately misinterpreted - BBC are the greatest culprit in this. However when the media luvvies and UK/US/EU neo-cons are clamouring for more cheap oil and gas, nothing will stand in their way.

[Spudulika]

Has anyone seen the new "elected" President of the Libyan rebel council - presented on Sky News? If there is any doubt as to his motivation, check out his forehead. I'll leave it at that.

[Spudulika]

Interesting development in the last day, American air and naval assets are "repositioning themselves" near Libya to assist. Hmm, maybe the natural resources of Libya is of value, perhaps it's just coincidence - US "advisers" riding along with rebels and such.

[peadar1987]

The last thing the US want is Middle Eastern democracy. If the people rule the country, the people will want control of the resources. Much easier for the US and their lackeys to keep a dictator in power in return for the right to steal the natural wealth of the region.

[geysir]

Evidently, democracy as it is practiced, is no barrier to the stealing of the natural wealth of a nation.

Do we have to look very far to see how the natural wealth of a nation can be leased out to foreign interests and all done in total compliance with what passes for a constitution, which gives executive dictatorial power to government to decide that such state assets are managed with little or no beneficial interest to the citizens.

[bennocelt]

Think this video encapsulates the issues in the Arab world!

[Spudulika]

I'm wondering when there will be the slightest balance in coverage of unfolding events in the ME, especially in Libya. Nobody has commented on the murder (usually by hanging or behading) of black Africans in "protestor"/"rebel" held territory in Libya - especially as they're the good guys. Nobody has commented on the fact that the leader of the Libyan Transnational Council Jibril and his ties to hardliners and French oil giant Total. Nobody has questioned why the French are leading the way into Libya? Nobody has asked why they are determined to "bring democracy" to a secular country when they crush Islamic dissent at home. Sky are desperate for war, CNN too, they're driving up hatred through tweets and facebook so that everybody believes a just war will take place. We can expect attacks on Libya to start within a week. Sick.

[bennocelt]

So wonder with this no fly zone will America and the rest (sorry I forgot - the UN!) also have one in place in Yemen, Bahrain (US trained/supported SA troops) and North Pakistan?

[EAFC_rdfl]

Great time to be sent to Oman for 2 weeks work! Im flying monday morning, hopefully things wont flair up much more in yemen, bahrain or saudi til i get back