The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

**Mr A** · 10/11/2009, 9:04 AM

In answer to the question posted in several places as to why the FAI are demanding that the players come clean if they already have evidence:

The players have been a party to the deception and cheating. I think the FAI are actually being pretty lenient by offering an amnesty if they come forward and admit the whole truth.

Plus obviously there is the considerable bonus that if they do all (or even some) come forward that Wellvan no longer have a leg to stand on.

**iceman** · 10/11/2009, 9:08 AM

From todays Sun

"There are 22 players that we've looked at. Take player 11 who we were told was earning €750 per week. On Wednesday, Derry told us they were paying that player €1050 net , if you gross that up it is €1312. The difference in what we were toild the player was earning and what the player was actually earning was €562 per week.

Here's player 4 , who on the standard player contract signed on Feb 11 2008 was earning €550. According to a contract signed Jan 25 2008 the player was earning �650Stg. Derry claim the standard player contract supercedes that but the players bank account shows the player was earning �2700Stg per month - as per the original contract.

If we tot up the 22 players that amounts to €337,000."

**Mr A** · 10/11/2009, 10:14 AM

If nothing else, it proves that Derry were paying completely mental wages.

**Steve Bruce** · 10/11/2009, 10:37 AM

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

**Mr A** · 10/11/2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

Exactamundo. Although of course you could argue that the FAI thing ends any chance of avoiding liquidation. If that chance had existed previously.

**Magicme** · 10/11/2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Sicuani

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from Derry to
Monaghan, Sligo to Dundalk..all clubs have been affected.

Please remove us from your comment as we have not had any issues, financial or otherwise to deal with in the past few seasons.

Careful what you say sicuani, this may be an internet forum where you can spout rubbish, but be aware that you cannot make up lies and expect to get away with it.

**OneRedArmy** · 10/11/2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

I agree.

But this begs the question as to why the FAI decided to go all out on us, when the passage of a very short amount of time (probably a fortnight), we would've hung ourselves anyway (debt, 65% shareholding, Dungannon, Linfield gate money, players wages........).

It was like stamping on the toes of someone clinging to a window ledge whose grip was slipping anyway.

One argument could be made is that the FAI are doing this in order to actually increase the chance that we'll have a team next season by forcing regime change and with it our chances of getting a license.

But thats almost the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to quell a riot.

**EalingGreen** · 10/11/2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

Not "throwing good money after bad" may explain why the FAI are withholding DCFC's Prize money i.e. they don't want to hand over �80k to Wellvan, so that in a couple of months time Wellvan collapses with debts of, say, �420k, rather than �500k.

Indeed, if Delaney is taking a pragmatic view, it may explain why the FAI is acting just now i.e. any earlier would have screwed up the 2009 Season, any later risks dragging it all into the 2010 season.

Meanwhile, intervening now allows DCFC the maximum time to clear up the existing mess and put something in its place for next season.

**EalingGreen** · 10/11/2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I agree.

But this begs the question as to why the FAI decided to go all out on us, when the passage of a very short amount of time (probably a fortnight), we would've hung ourselves anyway (debt, 65% shareholding, Dungannon, Linfield gate money, players wages........).

It was like stamping on the toes of someone clinging to a window ledge whose grip was slipping anyway.

One argument could be made is that the FAI are doing this in order to actually increase the chance that we'll have a team next season by forcing regime change and with it our chances of getting a license.

But thats almost the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to quell a riot.

See my previous post as to the FAI's timing. At best, if they hadn't acted now, they'd have had no excuse for not handing over DCFC's Prize money.

At worst, by appeals and part=payments etc, Wellvan might have clung on until after the start of next season and closing down a club at that stage is a hell of a sight messier than doing so now.

**OneRedArmy** · 10/11/2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

See my previous post as to the FAI's timing. At best, if they hadn't acted now, they'd have had no excuse for not handing over DCFC's Prize money.

At worst, by appeals and part=payments etc, Wellvan might have clung on until after the start of next season and closing down a club at that stage is a hell of a sight messier than doing so now.

Still, its a hell of a big fight to pick for expediency's sake.

**twoenz** · 10/11/2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I agree.

But this begs the question as to why the FAI decided to go all out on us, when the passage of a very short amount of time (probably a fortnight), we would've hung ourselves anyway (debt, 65% shareholding, Dungannon, Linfield gate money, players wages........).

It was like stamping on the toes of someone clinging to a window ledge whose grip was slipping anyway.

One argument could be made is that the FAI are doing this in order to actually increase the chance that we'll have a team next season by forcing regime change and with it our chances of getting a license.

But thats almost the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to quell a riot.

I'd tend to agree with this. By focusing on this issue, and pulling the possible safety net of prize money away from the board they're going to force the end of the club forward a lot.

**SMorgan** · 10/11/2009, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Not "throwing good money after bad" may explain why the FAI are withholding DCFC's Prize money i.e. they don't want to hand over �80k to Wellvan, so that in a couple of months time Wellvan collapses with debts of, say, �420k, rather than �500k.

Indeed, if Delaney is taking a pragmatic view, it may explain why the FAI is acting just now i.e. any earlier would have screwed up the 2009 Season, any later risks dragging it all into the 2010 season.

Meanwhile, intervening now allows DCFC the maximum time to clear up the existing mess and put something in its place for next season.

They won't give Derry C the �80k because �60k of it is Dundalk's!!!

**EalingGreen** · 10/11/2009, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by SMorgan

They won't give Derry C the �80k because �60k of it is Dundalk's!!!

In what way? Outstanding transfer fee?

Anyhow, I doubt the FAI will have any trouble finding a good home for it - better than Wellvan, at any rate!

**Krstic** · 10/11/2009, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

Spot on SB. I think that this has been a very welcome distraction for the board. It focuses the Fans anger at the FAI rathen than the Derry Boards' incompetence.
Even though, by the sounds of our Lawyer we probably have the FAI on a technicallity, it really doesn't matter as we have a debt of �500,000 that will put us to the wall anyway.

**Flexy** · 10/11/2009, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Krstic

Spot on SB. I think that this has been a very welcome distraction for the board. It focuses the Fans anger at the FAI rathen than the Derry Boards' incompetence.
Even though, by the sounds of our Lawyer we probably have the FAI on a technicallity, it really doesn't matter as we have a debt of �500,000 that will put us to the wall anyway.

All these latter posts are making sense around the �80k being held back. Ive no qualms about being relegated, if Wellvan do go into liquidation and sease trading could the fans and a new group be set up a new company and still receive the �80k plus the European money gained from this yrs Europa League. I think if it isnt then the money should be dished out between the other 21 clubs or even help promote the A Championship clubs

**MariborKev** · 10/11/2009, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

Ive no qualms about being relegated, if Wellvan do go into liquidation and sease trading could the fans and a new group be set up a new company and still receive the �80k plus the European money gained from this yrs Europa League.

No, it couldn't.

**tiktok** · 10/11/2009, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

if Wellvan do go into liquidation and sease trading could the fans and a new group be set up a new company and still receive the �80k plus the European money gained from this yrs Europa League.

The existing licence would go with Wellvan, any new entity wouldn't have rights to prize money owing to Wellvan.

**Hulsey** · 10/11/2009, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

Please remove us from your comment as we have not had any issues, financial or otherwise to deal with in the past few seasons.

Careful what you say sicuani, this may be an internet forum where you can spout rubbish, but be aware that you cannot make up lies and expect to get away with it.

Magicme from my reading of that don't think he was trying to have a go at monaghan for having any kind of financial difficulties, more the fact that the country as a whole did, with every club effected even in small ways, lack of willing sponsors etc. Don't see how anyone could just throw a well run clubs name in for the sake of it.

**Schumi** · 10/11/2009, 2:21 PM

I'd assume the prize money would go to Dundalk (who move up to fourth) with theirs going to whoever finishes fifth now (Sligo?) and so on down. There'll be �20 or whatever last in the first division gets left over but that's not a big deal.

**cregganite** · 10/11/2009, 2:22 PM

What I can't get my wee head round is the fact that a lot of us assumed these dual contracts meant Derry were actually paying UNDER the going rate of wages because of their parlous financial situation.

Now it turns out we were paying well OVER the going rate. That was just crazy and I for one cannot fathom how the Board could ever justify it. Did they think Derry City were somehow immune to the economic facts of life ?