Originally Posted by
pineapple stu
Working in literally every other league in Europe (except Holland, bizarrely) is a fairly good argument.
Lots of leagues have member instability, particularly as you go east. Take the Latvian top flight in 2010. Ten teams, of which only three are still in existence in the same form today (Ventspils, Daugava and Jelgava) Or the Lithuanian top flight of the same season - 11 teams, of which 6 don't exist any more. Or take the 2010/11 top flight in larger Bulgaria - 16 teams, of which only 7 haven't been expelled, gone backrupt or forcibly relegated in that time (and one of those has suffered four relegations). The LoI has had its upheaval in that time - of the 2010 league, Sporting Fingal and Galway left. But I think I've shown instability elsewhere - or I can show more leagues if you want.
I've already covered the suggestion that football is Ireland's fourth spot, but I will add that if the only three football clubs in the country were Shamrock Rovers, Cork City and Galway United, and if they had all the national team players playing for them, and if they were regularly playing and beating Celtic, Rangers, Arsenal, Man Utd, PSG, etc, then the interest would be way in excess of rugby's at the moment. Football is bigger than rugby here; the LoI though is not bigger than the Pro14. You're mixing that up.
So straight off, let's dismiss with your suggestion that Ireland is different. It's just not.
The thing is, you can say "THERE SHOULD BE A PYRAMID", but if what you then describe isn't a pyramid, then it doesn't matter how many caps you use, I can still call you out on that. And selecting teams to support based on an analysis of regional areas where senior clubs could fit in and then actively supporting them in a bid to be elected to a closed-shop senior system in 5/10 years' time is not a pyramid.
I don't really agree with this. There is nothing to be gained by, say, barring Crumlin United (who aren't interested in promotion, but let's say they were) while leaving Wexford in the league to get beaten 8-0 every week just because Wexford happen to play outside Dublin. There's certainly nothing to be gained by barring Crumlin and reprieving Cabo from relegation. You don't seem to get that a point of a pyramid is that unsuitable teams get relegated out just as quickly as they get promoted in.
But I will also point out (and have before pointed out) that the LSL/MSL are badly-organised leagues in their geographic specificity. Again, for a pyramid to work, then the whole thing has to be properly joined up, rather than this 19th century anachronism of Meath/Wexford/Wicklow District Leagues. Put Arklow Town/Navan Town/North End/whoever in the LSL and they will improve by virtue of playing stronger opposition and being able to attract/keep stronger players. Who wants to play in the Meath District League? It's no wonder these teams aren't great. And similar would hold for Munster (albeit that the Limerick portion in particular is probably much better defined)
Why should Athlone or Wexford have guaranteed spots in the LoI? They're ****ing basket cases of clubs. You say you want a pyramid but then you suggest Athlone or Wexford should have guaranteed spots in the LoI - that doesn't stack up. If in a pyramid they were to get relegated to the next level down (the LSL, say), then the onus is on them to put their house in order, come back stronger and earn promotion by merit. Your suggestion is to leave them there to ship double-figures because of where they come from. That can't possibly improve things. And in the meantime, North End United might win the LSL but you'd tell them "Thanks but no thanks" even though they might be better equipped for senior football than Wexford?
Set it out for us there so. Because you don't have a pyramid - but I'm curious to see what you think you think is a pyramid.
Because when I see stuff like -
Then you're clearly not talking about a proper pyramid system.
I get that they're existing clubs - but if you're supporting/promoting them on the basis of their geographic location, potentially above another club in the same area (see your Wexford/North End United bias for example), then what you're effectively saying is that Tralee would get the senior franchise for football in Kerry.
Hold on a sec there - earlier you spoke about "By the start of the 2024 season everyone involved should be clear on if and who is ready to join the league the following season". If you're saying that selected clubs have a target year to join the league if they meet set criteria - of which being good on the pitch isn't mentioned - then you absolutely are talking about parachuting them in.
So the problem here is that -
1) You keep thinking Ireland is different (when I've shown it's not)
2) You keep saying you're proposing a pyramid system while every suggestion you give actually indicates the opposite
3) You think regional spread is the only thing that is really holding the league back, and that cannon-fodder like Athlone or Wexford are benefitting the league at present purely because they're not in Dublin (with all due respect to Wexford and Athlone fans of course)
4) You think the league will be benefitted by taking teams currently not good enough for the top of the LSL/MSL, giving them a couple of token League Cup games, maybe having them play against each other, and giving them a bit of a talk on how to fundraise, and once those clubs join the league, it will be the better for it? But you've shown no reason why this would actually work
You can see why I'm not taking your suggestion overly seriously when compared to the alternative which works in every country in Europe (again, with the bizarre exception of Holland)