Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Saturday, 13th October 2018 - UEFA Nations League

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16/10/2018, 10:58 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

We've appointed two managers who I think the majority of people were incredibly excited by and both have decided that a cave man approach is our best chance of being competitive. Maybe that's just a reflection of where both were/are in their own managerial careers, set in their ways, outdated, lazy, etc. but I think it's worrying nonetheless. These guys aren't as clueless as some would have you believe.

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.
16/10/2018, 11:03 AM
Cathalsmart

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

Black and white as usual. I’d believe this argument if the two managers appointed were known for playing attacking football easy on the eye, neither are.
16/10/2018, 11:05 AM
Cathalsmart

Still can’t believe after the abomination on Saturday anyone is actually trying to defend O’Neill, the stuff we did than I’d expect no less from a local team down the street, not an international team full of premier league and championship players managed by someone on millions.
16/10/2018, 11:23 AM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager? We played Georgia twice at home, and although the scoreline was the same there was a huge contrast in the two performances. The night when Walters got the winner it was a tough slog, but we always looked the more likely and controlled the match far better. The night Coleman got the winner we were dreadful, they dominated the game and we were very lucky. I'm sure O'Neill, like the rest of us, would prefer our performance in the former example.

I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw). Georgia went to Cardiff and dominated a far better footballing side than us too for long spells, it should be said. I doubt this was a deliberate tactic by Chris Coleman.
16/10/2018, 11:33 AM
Diggs246

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc
16/10/2018, 11:49 AM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc

Not to mention the two nations who seem to have become the barometer by which all things are judged, Iceland & Northern Ireland. Exactly zero points between them in their six matches so far. Northern Ireland haven't scored a goal away from home in over a year and Iceland, granted in Group A, lost 6-0 to Switzerland.
16/10/2018, 11:54 AM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

Am I attacking the poster? I’m helping him not dig this hole any deeper.
Fair to say he doesn’t watch San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein regularly enough yet is able to say their players (who are mostly amateur) are on par with players we have playing Championship level at least...cmon I know there are idiotic posts on here all the time but surely this is a new low?

I've seen those teams as much as the next person Cathal - which is very little. However when I've seen the likes of those teams what has struck me is exactly that. Many of their players are far better technically than ours and they play as a team more cohesively than ours. They at least try to play football which is the point of them being there (as someone pointed out earlier on this post). They invariably lose their games which is down to their populations / pool of players they have to choose from. I bet however I could walk onto the training ground of any of those teams and pick out a midfielder who can create far more than Jeff Hendrick or Glen Whelan before him (not difficult) and a center back who is more in sync with him than is Shane Duffy or Richard Keogh. Increase those teams above slightly in population, coaching structure and pool of players and you get Iceland. Increase it a little more than that and you get Sweden.

In regard to the management team you seem to be hung up on them and blinded by that fact. For full disclosure I called for Martin O'Neill to never be allowed near another Irish team following the Austria home game (he took two points which belonged to us that day and just threw them into the wind via his team selection). Fast forward to Tiblisi where we scored after 4 minutes and then gave up. That is not a figurative term - we literally gave up (stood in our own half and did nothing for 86 minutes). I have never seen anything like that in my life in any game of football in any part of the globe. I was still on the O'Neill must go kick at that point so I wanted him out even more at that time. But when you stop to think about it, where does the responsibility of the players start and end? Was there not one of them on the pitch in Tiblisi that night who said to his team mates: "Come on lads lets have a go at them, let's try to hit them on the counter and finish this thing off." I am no fan of O'Neill anymore but it has gone beyond that point, way beyond.

You are using the words 'idiotic' and saying this post is 'a new low'. I would agree with those words if you applied it to the current Irish team. The real proof is in the pudding Cathal. What I mean by this is that I have followed this Irish team since the early 1970's. We were evolving back then and there was journey to be travelled. However with Saturday's performance and those mentioned above, among others, there is a pattern which is very worrying about ths Ireland team. We have been left behind in the departure lounge. But this is something I said 20 years ago and you and I will be on here still debating the point in 20 years time if things don't change drastically.
16/10/2018, 2:50 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager?

I think a lot of it is down to the manager and how he sets his team up. Much more than is down to the players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw).

I think the similarity is that we were overly conservative and cautious and didn't attack in enough numbers to hold on to the ball - we gave it away very cheaply and as a result were dominated by a team that were not afraid of holding on to it. Being needlessly conservative is a hallmark of O'Neill, in my opinion, just like Trap before him.

I don't think it's a deliberate tactic, but I do think being 'out-footballed' is a fairly predictable outcome of such tactics.
16/10/2018, 3:02 PM
DeLorean

Yeah, on the balance I wouldn't disagree with that.
16/10/2018, 3:23 PM
brine3

O'Neill is apparently known for springing selection surprises on players minutes before kickoff. Done it all throughout his career apparently.
18/10/2018, 5:49 PM
Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.
18/10/2018, 6:06 PM
Olé Olé

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.

Sure we have Crowley instead!
19/10/2018, 1:32 AM
CraftyToePoke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Has come off the bench twice, maybe three times in the last month or so.
19/10/2018, 7:40 AM
p2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.

This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JySkquVshmA

Imagine we had someone doing that in the last two games! Controlling the ball, playing zippy passes, passing the ball out wide when it's on. And he's at Kilmarnock now.
19/10/2018, 7:54 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Has come off the bench twice, maybe three times in the last month or so.

twice, and left on the bench twice: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Play...9&seasonID=148
19/10/2018, 9:28 AM
Park_Lane

Byrne possibly no 100% fit yet as he joined Killie late from Oldham where he was frozen out
22/03/2019, 3:29 PM
tetsujin1979

Thread bumped and locked

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