Sean Maguire F Carlisle United b.1994

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I saw a lot of the Dundalk players last year from watching the Europa games, and most of them particularly McEleney and Horgan stood out. I find it more difficult to judge LOI defenders that dont make the blunders compared to midfielders/wingers/forwards. Shiels looked good as did O'Donnell but was just lacking pace for the top level. Horgan and McEleney generally stood out, as did Massey and Gannon against any opposition they played against. I think you can judge players when they play against a certain level opposition without them playing consistently in a better league.

I watched Maguire in 2 or 3 matches last year, and particularly against Genk he was very ordinary. He didn't stand out in the same way the above players did. I think he would be found out playing for Ireland and wouldn't rise to the occassion.

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to counter that, Glen Crowe did not look at all out of place in his appearance v. Greece while he was still in the league and he was on a similar run of form to that currently being experienced by Maguire, with the added piece that Maguire offers far more in terms of mobility and has youth on his side (which wasn't the case with Crowe).

Related to your last sentence, you can speculate all you like but you don't know until you try. Somewhat related, we need to be giving our exceptional domestic players a) a chance and b) realize the positive effect that this will have on the domestic game and the club should that player then draw interest from clubs across the water. We should look at Coleman to Everton for 60k and all agree that we should do everything to prevent those sort of deals from happening. This sort of positive/active promotion of our exceptional domestic players would help a little in that regard.

Everyone looked out of place that night. Still one of the worst Irish matches I have ever had the displeasure to witness. Gack!

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Originally Posted by osarusan

It doesn't really affect what I said, but it's very true and very annoying, just a ROI manager applying the same lazy thought process to a club manager's decision ("if they fancy him enough to sign him we should take a look at him too").

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I think it's a lack-of-courage/initiative thing as well. Martin O'Neill is quite cautious by nature, but, generally-speaking, if an Ireland manager decides to call up a League of Ireland player and the player is subsequently exposed as being way out of his depth on the international stage, the international manager may feel more vulnerable to criticism if he has gone out on a limb and taken the punt on the player all by himself.

On the other hand, if a League of Ireland player has just moved to England after an English-based manager has, for all to see, evidently placed faith in that player's ability and an Irish international manager then calls said player up, the international manager can sort of share culpability or the potential embarrassment if it doesn't work out. The international manager might feel he'll look less foolish in the eyes of his association, critics/pundits and supporters that way.

When it happens - a player getting called up as soon as he's off the plane in England - it's obviously great news for the player concerned, but it's also rather galling/frustrating that the international manager was perhaps just lazy or felt too fearful of trusting his own judgment and had to use a second manager's judgment/approval of the player as a sort of crutch or safety net.

I doubt Martin Oneill is too worried what the media or others think. Id be pretty sure he is confident enough in himself to make whatever calls he feels are necessary and justified.

At this time I doubt he feels Maguire is ready and/or good enough.

This talk about the international manager being too worried to risk what others think is ridiculous. Surely he can call him up to his next squad of 55.... and watch him in training. Virtually nothing to lose. If he can't make his mind up if he is good enough after watching him in training then he shouldn't be in the job.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I doubt Martin Oneill is too worried what the media or others think. Id be pretty sure he is confident enough in himself to make whatever calls he feels are necessary and justified.

At this time I doubt he feels Maguire is ready and/or good enough.

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O'Neill had the perfect opportunity to introduce a red-hot Daryl Horgan (who was still at Dundalk at the time and who had been seriously impressing against top-class European opposition during weeks prior) in the 85th minute away to Austria when McClean signalled that he was having a fitness issue, but he instead chose to bring on McGeady (who, only recently before that, had returned from injury, if I remember correctly, and who had been out-of-form for about two years at the time anyway with his career seemingly on an abrupt downward spiral).

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Originally Posted by topia

This talk about the international manager being too worried to risk what others think is ridiculous. Surely he can call him up to his next squad of 55.... and watch him in training. Virtually nothing to lose. If he can't make his mind up if he is good enough after watching him in training then he shouldn't be in the job.

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Maybe so, although international managers have damageable egos too. And, whatever about pundits and fans, an international manager still ought to at least care about what the association, upon whom his job and livelihood depend, think of his performance and choices.

My theory about internationals managers possibly being fearful of taking a risk when other perceived "safer" options are available is actually somewhat based upon something I read in relation to the apparent reluctance of English clubs to employ black managers (on page 112 of Soccernomics [PDF] in the chapter on racial discrimination):

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Originally Posted by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski

The issue hit Britain only when the first generation of black players began to retire (its being an article of faith in soccer that only ex-players have what it takes to become managers). The former England international Luther Blissett, who as a player had made that ill-fated transfer to Milan, applied for twenty-two jobs as a manager in the 1990s. He did not get a single interview. Stella Orakwue, who recounts his story in her 1998 book, Pitch Invaders, concludes, “I feel a British black managing a Premiership team could be a very long way off.” Indeed, only in 2008, ten years after she wrote this, did Blackburn give Paul Ince a chance for a few months. Even after Ince’s appointment, John Barnes, who himself had struggled to get work as a manager in Britain, said, “I believe the situation for black managers is like it was for black players back in the 1970s.” True, black managers Ruud Gullit and Jean Tigana did get jobs in the Premier League. But as Orakwue points out, the crucial point is that they were foreigners. They were perceived in Britain first of all as Dutch or French, and only secondarily as black. Gullit was cast as a typical sophisticated Dutch manager, not as an untried “black” one.

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Because it is so hard to measure a manager’s performance, it will never become painfully obvious that clubs are undervaluing black managers. That means clubs can continue to choose their managers on the basis of appearances. Any club appointing someone who is not a white male ex-player with a conservative haircut must worry about looking foolish if its choice fails. Hiring a black manager feels risky, because as Barnes says, “Black guys haven’t proved themselves as managers.” White guys have—or at least some of them appear to have.

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Obviously, League of Ireland players aren't suffering racial prejudice, but their ability is seemingly doubted until a manager from England decides (perhaps reassuringly for the international manager in charge) to put faith in their ability too. Only then, do the players seem to get recognition. In the case of Brian Lenihan who moved from Cork to Hull, he received a surprise call-up as soon as he stepped off the plane in England.

Daryl Horgan and Andy Boyle were notable exceptions last season in being called into a final 23/28-man squad whilst still at Dundalk*, but, even then, as I pointed out above, O'Neill had an ideal opportunity to go one step further and hand the ridiculously-in-form Horgan his debut against Austria, but declined to do so. Horgan would have been the first League of Ireland player to feature in a competitive international for Ireland since Shamrock Rovers' Pat Byrne lined out against Denmark in 1985.

^{*I acknowledge Dundalk goalkeeper Gary Rogers also made squads to play Oman and Serbia last year, but he'd already been in and around the set-up for a while as a convenient training keeper (despite being error-prone and nowhere near the best keeper in the League of Ireland), we were very stretched in the back-up goalkeeping department and the position is a bit of an anomaly anyway.}

I think McGeady was a better option to bring on in Vienna so I wouldn't agree that it was lack of courage or anything like that. Winning 1-0 he probably just wanted somebody who's calm in possession as Hoolahan had already gone off at that stage as well.

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think McGeady was a better option to bring on in Vienna so I wouldn't agree that it was lack of courage or anything like that. Winning 1-0 he probably just wanted somebody who's calm in possession as Hoolahan had already gone off at that stage as well.

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

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Even though I like the look of O'Dowda and think he will prove to be a good player for us in the future, he is incredibly lucky that the game against Belarus in Turner's Cross was so dour that he was the only talking point from the match. The buzz and chat about him being a bolter for the Euro squad demonstrated that.

MON is definitely a fan and that match was the makings of him I think. Not many others have been as lucky. That friendly was quite trivial in the scheme of things and O'Dowda benefitted from that. It was so trivial that Hendrick was utterly abysmal but went into be one of our best two or three players at the Euros.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

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Fair point - it was a bold move by O'Neill - although, as Óle Óle points out, O'Dowda had already been tried and tested in the friendly against Belarus.

I'm not sure being tried and tested for fifteen minutes against Belarus alters things much really.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Maybe so, although international managers have damageable egos too. And, whatever about pundits and fans, an international manager still ought to at least care about what the association, upon whom his job and livelihood depend, think of his performance and choices.

My theory about internationals managers possibly being fearful of taking a risk when other perceived "safer" options are available is actually somewhat based upon something I read in relation to the apparent reluctance of English clubs to employ black managers (on page 112 of Soccernomics [PDF] in the chapter on racial discrimination):



Obviously, League of Ireland players aren't suffering racial prejudice, but their ability is seemingly doubted until a manager from England decides (perhaps reassuringly for the international manager in charge) to put faith in their ability too. Only then, do the players seem to get recognition. In the case of Brian Lenihan who moved from Cork to Hull, he received a surprise call-up as soon as he stepped off the plane in England.

Daryl Horgan and Andy Boyle were notable exceptions last season in being called into a final 23/28-man squad whilst still at Dundalk*, but, even then, as I pointed out above, O'Neill had an ideal opportunity to go one step further and hand the ridiculously-in-form Horgan his debut against Austria, but declined to do so. Horgan would have been the first League of Ireland player to feature in a competitive international for Ireland since Shamrock Rovers' Pat Byrne lined out against Denmark in 1985.

^{*I acknowledge Dundalk goalkeeper Gary Rogers also made squads to play Oman and Serbia last year, but he'd already been in and around the set-up for a while as a convenient training keeper (despite being error-prone and nowhere near the best keeper in the League of Ireland), we were very stretched in the back-up goalkeeping department and the position is a bit of an anomaly anyway.}

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Barnes' problems are more to do not being a good manager. He got his first job in charge of Celtic, and (after an admittedly promising start) was woeful at it. It's not a Premier League job, but at the time it was the second biggest job in Scotland. He didn't do much better at Tranmere.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Maybe so, although international managers have damageable egos too. And, whatever about pundits and fans, an international manager still ought to at least care about what the association, upon whom his job and livelihood depend, think of his performance and choices.

My theory about internationals managers possibly being fearful of taking a risk when other perceived "safer" options are available is actually somewhat based upon something I read in relation to the apparent reluctance of English clubs to employ black managers (on page 112 of Soccernomics [PDF] in the chapter on racial discrimination):



Obviously, League of Ireland players aren't suffering racial prejudice, but their ability is seemingly doubted until a manager from England decides (perhaps reassuringly for the international manager in charge) to put faith in their ability too. Only then, do the players seem to get recognition. In the case of Brian Lenihan who moved from Cork to Hull, he received a surprise call-up as soon as he stepped off the plane in England.

Daryl Horgan and Andy Boyle were notable exceptions last season in being called into a final 23/28-man squad whilst still at Dundalk*, but, even then, as I pointed out above, O'Neill had an ideal opportunity to go one step further and hand the ridiculously-in-form Horgan his debut against Austria, but declined to do so. Horgan would have been the first League of Ireland player to feature in a competitive international for Ireland since Shamrock Rovers' Pat Byrne lined out against Denmark in 1985.

^{*I acknowledge Dundalk goalkeeper Gary Rogers also made squads to play Oman and Serbia last year, but he'd already been in and around the set-up for a while as a convenient training keeper (despite being error-prone and nowhere near the best keeper in the League of Ireland), we were very stretched in the back-up goalkeeping department and the position is a bit of an anomaly anyway.}

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I worded it in a bad way... I agree that he might be fearful... I just think it's ridiculous!
All he has to do is add any potential player to one of his ridiculously large training squads instead of another marginal player such as Gleeson and check them out. Noone is going to judge him for that and it would be far more beneficial.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Barnes' problems are more to do not being a good manager.

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Sure, he wasn't a good manager, but plenty of white coaches/trainers/managers/ex-players are repeatedly given jobs on the managerial merry-go-round (in significantly greater numbers proportionately compared to the number of their black counterparts who are given managerial roles) despite not being very good either. The theory (which is backed by data) is that the colour of their skin is an additional "impediment" or "handicap" to career progression for black coaches/trainers/managers/ex-players due to existing societal prejudices atop of what may be the bounds or frame of their abilities.

Maguire's goal against Derry last night to put Cork 3-0 up (see from 1m37s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3vbrGMHRRg#t=1m37s

His eighth of the season out of eight games played.

According to a report in the Irish Daily Star, Maguire is to be called into the senior international squad for the friendly against Uruguay: http://www.punditarena.com/football/...endly-uruguay/

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Originally Posted by Simon O'Keeffe

According to the Irish Daily Star on Tuesday, Maguire is set to be called up the the senior national team for the friendly against Uruguay at the Aviva Stadium on June 4th.

Ireland play three matches in early June, but Maguire is likely to only be involved in one of them. The report states that the former under-21 international will not be taken to New Jersey with the rest of the squad to face Mexico on June 1st due to Cork City’s clash with Dundalk the following day, while the chances of him being thrown in against Austria in a World Cup qualifier on June 11th would appear to be remote.

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So, a report in the Star, that was copied by Pundit Arena (who have a dodgy reputation as it is) says he'll be included in a squad that won't be announced for at least a month, for a game that's a further month away.

Interview with him here after winning player of the month. He speaks about the possibility of an Ireland call up as well as his desire to play again in England or, perhaps interestingly, in Europe.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...le-447581.html

"'Time will tell if we decide to pursue it any more' - Preston boss on Seán Maguire": http://www.the42.ie/preston-boss-on-...60372-Apr2017/

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Originally Posted by Paul Fennessy

[Simon] Grayson and Lilywhites chairman Peter Ridsdale even turned up to watch Maguire play, as league leaders Cork beat St Pat’s 3-0 at Richmond Park on Friday.

“I know quite a bit about the player,” Grayson told BBC Radio Lancashire. “I got a free opportunity to go and watch him with us not playing (against Newcastle) until Monday. Time will tell if we decide to pursue it any more. He’s obviously a player that people are looking at and it was a perfect opportunity to go and look at him in live match time rather than the internet.”

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According to Neil O'Riordan, Maguire has a buy-out clause of €150,000 in his contract, meaning he'll likely leave Cork in July if an interested club is willing to match that amount: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...-to-do-a-deal/

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Originally Posted by Neil O'Riordan

SunSport has learned the prolific ace has a buy-out clause [of €150,000] in his contract which means he can leave Turner’s Cross for the modest sum in July.

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With Maguire, the club will argue it had no choice but to agree to the clause to persuade him to sign a new deal amid UK and Belgian interest and, given he will be available for free in November anyway, it was the best they could hope for.

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