Gavin Bazunu G Southampton b.2002

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Not often enough though, it seems. Look at the Armenia game for example. Two goals he (and others, to be clear) should have done better for. That's what counts ultimately.

I also remember talking to Niall Corbet about UCD's Euro games and he said he really enjoyed the game in Luxemburg in particular; he had nothing to lose from facing so many shots. I used to enjoy games like that too (to a certain extent!). Everyone will be different of course, but I don't think it's set in stone that playing behind a dodgy defence automatically hits morale/form.

You've spoken about how he may take 4/5 years to reach his peak and that could well be the case (though I'd hope it'd be sooner). I just look at France being next month though and wonder if he's the best option right now.

Kelleher's situation isn't ideal either - I've said before I admire Bazunu for the bravery to leave City - but I'd feel happier with Kelleher in nets for the moment tbh. And I don't think a change of keeper will make a massive difference against France of course.

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What can you point to that you think makes Kelleher a better option? It cant be anything hes done over a run of games because hes never done that. And even in the little amount of game time we've seen I have also thought Kelleher could have done better for some goals conceeded.

If its just a gut feeling then fair enough, we are all entitled to opinions. I just like my players to play actual games so we know if they are actually good or not. When Kelleher has actually played the odd one off game he was behind a Liverpool team that was fairly dominant, Id like to see him over 20 consecutive games to see how he handles the ups and downs of that. He cant build a career on just being a penalty shootout hero.

If Kelleher is playing week in week out next season then I think we could have real competition for the goalkeeping spot, and I genuinely hope he does get a move. Its better for Irish football if they are both playing well, but right now one is playing and one is not so its a simple enough decision for me.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Not often enough though, it seems. Look at the Armenia game for example. Two goals he (and others, to be clear) should have done better for. That's what counts ultimately.

I also remember talking to Niall Corbet about UCD's Euro games and he said he really enjoyed the game in Luxemburg in particular; he had nothing to lose from facing so many shots. I used to enjoy games like that too (to a certain extent!). Everyone will be different of course, but I don't think it's set in stone that playing behind a dodgy defence automatically hits morale/form.

You've spoken about how he may take 4/5 years to reach his peak and that could well be the case (though I'd hope it'd be sooner). I just look at France being next month though and wonder if he's the best option right now.

Kelleher's situation isn't ideal either - I've said before I admire Bazunu for the bravery to leave City - but I'd feel happier with Kelleher in nets for the moment tbh. And I don't think a change of keeper will make a massive difference against France of course.

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He wasn't Portsmouth's player of the season for no reason though. That was based off being reliable and making fantastic saves.

I'd actually agree though on who to play against France in the not-friendly.....It's ok to pick players based on form, particularly when they are so close.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

He wasn't Portsmouth's player of the season for no reason though.

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Nope, but I think over the past couple of years we (as in, everyone here) has been in rough agreement that L1 isn't a level we want our players at. It's a huge step up.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

What can you point to that you think makes Kelleher a better option? It cant be anything hes done over a run of games because hes never done that. And even in the little amount of game time we've seen I have also thought Kelleher could have done better for some goals conceeded.

If its just a gut feeling then fair enough, we are all entitled to opinions.

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Yeah, just gut feeling really. And general assuredness when called on by Ireland. I can't recall too many lapses in concentration, but Bazunu has had plenty. Got away with some (especially in early games), redeemed himself on others (the peno in Portugal the obvious one), cost us goals elsewhere (Armenia at home)

I absolutely agree about playing games. We're not yet at the promised land in terms of keepers. Though I don't agree it's as simple as one keeper is playing and one's not, otherwise we'd have James Talbot in the squad over Kelleher.

What I meant is that when we have 2 of similar levels Id go with the one playing. I think for example that Kelleher is better than Travers so I'd pick Kelleher regardless of the playing situation

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I can't recall too many lapses in concentration, but Bazunu has had plenty. Got away with some (especially in early games), redeemed himself on others (the peno in Portugal the obvious one), cost us goals elsewhere (Armenia at home)

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Inswinging free kick vs Belgium that went straight into the middle of Kelleher's goal. Awful starting position for Batshuayi's goal and slow to react. Both soft goals. Nothing to do in the other home games he played really. Did well v Ukraine away.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Inswinging free kick vs Belgium that went straight into the middle of Kelleher's goal. Awful starting position for Batshuayi's goal and slow to react. Both soft goals. Nothing to do in the other home games he played really. Did well v Ukraine away.

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The belgain goal (Batshuayi) was colemans fault if anyones

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Inswinging free kick vs Belgium that went straight into the middle of Kelleher's goal. Awful starting position for Batshuayi's goal and slow to react. Both soft goals. Nothing to do in the other home games he played really. Did well v Ukraine away.

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I'm not sure if they're lapses in concentration as such. I'm thinking of the likes of Bazunu dropping the corner v Azerbaijan, dropping a simple shot onto the post in Portugal, playing a hospital pass to Hendrick in the same game (you can argue the toss as to whether it was a penalty, but it was an awful pass), coming flying to the edge of his box against Luxembourg and Qatar. The two goals against Armenia were softer goals than Kelleher's conceded, with poor footwork for the first one in particular.

Also agree with Diggs that Coleman was the main culprit for the Belgium goal. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up at a great finish, even if his starting position did appear a bit relaxed (although that seems his style too). I remember a lot of people at the time saying that Bazunu would have saved it, but the season to date suggests that may be a bit of bias rather than anything based in solid fact.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

What I meant is that when we have 2 of similar levels Id go with the one playing. I think for example that Kelleher is better than Travers so I'd pick Kelleher regardless of the playing situation

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Yeah, it's certainly a valid view and I'm not going argue it's daft or anything like that. For me, I just think the stats/form this season are concerning.

And taken as read of course that he's young and upwardly mobile and Kelleher really does need a move for us to see how good he really is.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

The belgain goal (Batshuayi) was colemans fault if anyones

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Ultimately maybe but we're commenting purely on the goalkeeping here and it was poor, even if what happened beforehand was poor too. There's a still photo that did the rounds and his positioning was poor and with the ball already on its way he hadn't even shifted his weight to his left.

I said myself a few weeks ago I'd tend to go for Kelleher right now. I think Bazunu has stabilised his club form since but it's still very close. But watching Bazunu at Newcastle, under pressure from dangerous crosses and doing OK, but no better, did make me think we haven't yet seen Kelleher face anything similar. That's the real concern. We now know Bazunu's current level. We're still only guessing at Kelleher's.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Inswinging free kick vs Belgium that went straight into the middle of Kelleher's goal. Awful starting position for Batshuayi's goal and slow to react. Both soft goals. Nothing to do in the other home games he played really. Did well v Ukraine away.

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Maybe the goal away to Armenia as well? Sure, clean strike and our outfield players should be getting closer but the shot was telegraphed, from 30 yards out, and Kelleher could see it the whole way.

On the starting position and slowness to react comment, there is a tendency to be flat-footed + stuck to his goal line. Evident from his U21 days.

Additionally, I think Kelleher does have weakness on balls across his body, and the lack of match time is a concern. (and we don't know how he would deal with sustained pressure as you mention - (bar those early Liverpool games)). Bazunu faces this week in, week out.

But goalkeeper isn't a position of concern for me. I'm comfortable with either Bazunu and Kelleher, but preference is Bazunu.

The goal kelleher conceeded against ukraine at home was softer than anything bazunu has conceeded for Ireland. It would probably get mentioned everyday on here if Bazunu conceeded it.

I think that comes back to a tendency to stick on his goal line and to let the defence deal with those types of balls. Maybe his reaction to the disallowed goal, the lob, in that game. Too relaxed, didn't set himself, caught flat footed and couldn’t get off his feet to jump.

Surely even Liverpool will want Kelleher playing many games somewhere next season if they don't sell him ?

And if they thought he was that good ~ would they sell him ? ~ well without a buy back clause anyway ?

A win-win for both Liverpool and Kelleher if he went out on loan. Just seems illogical not to do this, more so when they are not giving him the FA cup games. Improvement comes from playing. Bazunu must be close to playing as many minutes for Southampton as Kelleher has played in senior football.

At club level Bazunu has played 2250 minutes of senior football this season.

Including an appearance for Liverpool Under 21s in the EFL trophy, which is counted as a senior game, Kelleher has played 1920 minutes of senior club football in his career.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

A win-win for both Liverpool and Kelleher if he went out on loan. Just seems illogical not to do this, more so when they are not giving him the FA cup games. Improvement comes from playing. Bazunu must be close to playing as many minutes for Southampton as Kelleher has played in senior football.

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its not a win win though. liverpool will need to buy a replacement as they clearly dont trust adrian. a sale is in both parties interests in the summer.

Saw the highlights on MOTD. Conceded another 3 today. None of the goals were his fault. Could easily have conceded 5 - one hit the post from an open goal where Bazunu sold himself a bit easy and another where a defender cleared it off the line with Bazunu beaten.

I remember in his first year as a senior international, he’d make a few ridiculous saves a game, just really really good reactive stuff - and I feel like those saves that made him a really good keeper aren’t happening. The final goal was a little like that, you wouldn’t expect him to save it, it wasn’t his fault that he didn’t… but if he was in good form and confident, he might have pulled off a cracker

I’d definitely start Kelleher in March.

The devil you know is better than the devil Ui don’t know.

I’ve been very worried about Bazunu’s decision making and ability to deal with crosses over the past few weeks, in addition to him leaving in some very easy shots which were basic saves. I just don’t know Caoimhin, great on the ball and in the right place at the right time in a couple of dead rubber champions league game, but a few soft goals v villa in the league cup and one soft goal with Ireland, in addition to playing minimal senior football over the past 4 years. It seems just as risky playing an untested and inexperienced keeper with no game time this season Vs Bazunu. Klopp didn’t even start Kelleher in the FA Cup, how good does he truly think Caoimhin can become?

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

The devil you know is better than the devil Ui don’t know.

I’ve been very worried about Bazunu’s decision making and ability to deal with crosses over the past few weeks, in addition to him leaving in some very easy shots which were basic saves. I just don’t know Caoimhin, great on the ball and in the right place at the right time in a couple of dead rubber champions league game, but a few soft goals v villa in the league cup and one soft goal with Ireland, in addition to playing minimal senior football over the past 4 years. It seems just as risky playing an untested and inexperienced keeper with no game time this season Vs Bazunu. Klopp didn’t even start Kelleher in the FA Cup, how good does he truly think Caoimhin can become?

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the villa game you're referring to was in 2019, with a group of kids in front of him, basically an u23s game. he's played 2 games in 2023 and was very good in both. played very well against man city and kept a clean sheet against wolves. you just have to watch him when he plays to see how good he is. from an irish perspective, he's conceded 5 goals in 9 games. bazunu has conceded 13 goals in 13 games. pretty small sample size but still...

if you asked me in 6 months i might give you a different answer but right now, Kelleher would definitely start for me. i feel like in general, i'd expect them both to give us 8/10 performances, but right now bazunu is performing 6 or 7/10, so it's an easy decision for me

I doubt if Bazunu would be too impressed if a fella that is hardly playing was picked before him. I wouldn't blame Bazunu for that either.

You don't make many mistakes if you are not playing ! ~ ~ Sort of the Eamoon Dunphy philosophy about his latest non playing messiah.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I remember in his first year as a senior international, he’d make a few ridiculous saves a game, just really really good reactive stuff - and I feel like those saves that made him a really good keeper aren’t happening. The final goal was a little like that, you wouldn’t expect him to save it, it wasn’t his fault that he didn’t… but if he was in good form and confident, he might have pulled off a cracker

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Agree with this, flatters to deceive. I still think we are well off knowing our best keepers, but at least for now he's not doing anything glaringly wrong for us I mean. I'd be more confident with him than I ever was with David Forde.