Arkagas Ability Under Scrutiny

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19/08/2008, 10:11 AM
A face

Arkagas Ability Under Scrutiny

Arkaga recently made the decision to sell Meyler to Sunderland for €180k, a youngest who made only 3 first team appearances while at the club. Meyler still had three years left on his contract at this time so this decision was obviously going to be questioned by the City faithful.

Now they have been made an offer for Dave Mooney, a player at the club at the opposite end of the scale as regards value. The offer is the same price as Meyler yet he is top score in the league.

If Mooney is in a similar goal-scoring form to Roy O'Donavon last season, who went for somewhere in the region of €500,000, as well as finishing as the League's top scorer in 2007 with the side that finished rock bottom (something lacking from O'Donavon) and who's contract is 5 times longer, then Mooney's value should be €2.5M plus. Of course our financial situation would cut the price down by a bit, but 90%???

Are Arkaga about to prove they are not capable of running a half time raffle, not to mind a football club?

A company that boasts a huge portfolio of investments are just about to get done over? Do all their other 'investments' come under scruinty now and viewed with scepticism as opposed to credibility?

Are this company about to lock, load and shoot themselves in the foot?

What good have to actually done for Cork City FC? Have they behaved like fumbling idiots since they got to the club?
19/08/2008, 4:23 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

If Mooney is in a similar goal-scoring form to Roy O'Donavon last season, who went for somewhere in the region of �500,000, as well as finishing as the League's top scorer in 2007 with the side that finished rock bottom (something lacking from O'Donavon) and who's contract is 5 times longer, then Mooney's value should be �2.5M plus. Of course our financial situation would cut the price down by a bit, but 90%???

No club will pay over �1m for an eircom league player, especially one at a club that is in debt.

Doyle has done very well at Reading. However, O'Donovan struggled at Sunderland and now he's been loaned out to Dundee United. Alan Bennett was another big signing by Reading and he hasn't made a league appearance for them, afaik. He has been told by the club that his future lies elsewhere.

This will mean more caution when signing EL players. There is the risk that they'll struggle, like O'Donovan and Bennett, or they might (less likely imo) succed like Doyle. While I do believe Mooney is better than O'Donovan was and has better stats than Doyle, Reading will still be cautious and won't want to take another heavy loss a la Bennett. IMO they won't be dragged into a bidding war.

Then, Cork could be in examinership soon and any decision on player sales could be taken out of Arkaga's hands. The examiner will want to cut costs and try to get in any money therefore they are more likely to accept the first bid that comes along.

Also, the transfer window is closing so Cork won't have too long left to stall or jack up the price. Reading hold all the cards in this move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

A company that boasts a huge portfolio of investments are just about to get done over? Do all their other 'investments' come under scruinty now and viewed with scepticism as opposed to credibility?

Good point. Their other companies should be looked at if they are being mismanaged in the same vein as Cork are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

What good have to actually done for Cork City FC? Have they behaved like fumbling idiots since they got to the club?

Ploughing �2.4m into the club and still not clearing their debts, despite other financial returns, is definitely a bad sign.
19/08/2008, 4:25 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Ploughing �2.4m into the club and still not clearing their debts, despite other financial returns, is definitely a bad sign.

There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.
19/08/2008, 4:28 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.

If they're overstating the figure to look "generous" and "commited", then it reflects very poorly on their financial management.

If they're understating the figure, they have even worse financial management problems.
19/08/2008, 4:36 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.

I think it is quiet likely they have spent 2.4m but that takes no account of the revenue i the same period. It doesn't take a very intelligent journalist to question that figure. It implies they have already lost 2.4m & have a further 800k in debt which would lead to an unbelieveable annual budget. :rolleyes:
19/08/2008, 4:37 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

If they're overstating the figure to look "generous" and "commited", then it reflects very poorly on their financial management.

No, it reflects very poorly on journalists in this country to take everything they're told at face value and not query it.

I may well be wrong, but we only have Arkaga's word for it that they've put in E2.4m. I reckon they've put in nothing. Makes more sense.
19/08/2008, 4:47 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

No, it reflects very poorly on journalists in this country to take everything they're told at face value and not query it.

It was reported by the national public service broadcaster through their main football correspondent (a supposed Cork fan) on MNS last night. I don't think it's falsified.

I really don't see how Arkaga can make a statement like that and have any good PR come out of it. It reflects very badly to say "We've spent �2.4m on the club and yet we've managed to run into debt".
19/08/2008, 4:48 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I reckon they've put in nothing. Makes more sense.

The numbers are certainly more likely to add up that way. They budgeted on 1m loss & look how much the current debt is or was reported to be before recent settlements...

BTW such is the scale of some debts they must have been building all season & gate receipts only used to pay wages. As a club the wages for highly paid CEOs gone our books too.
19/08/2008, 5:21 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There's no proof E2.4m has been ploughed into the club; it's a figure straight from an Arkaga press release with no back-up at all. I'd be sceptical of it.

Will the accounts of Cork City Investment Fund (that's the name of the company that apparantly own the club?) ever be made public?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

The numbers are certainly more likely to add up that way. They budgeted on 1m loss & look how much the current debt is or was reported to be before recent settlements...

Would the cost of running the club be over �3m (�2.4m invested + �800k debt)? If wages are 65%* they would be max �1.56m. This isn't even taking into account sponsorship and transfer fees received. I could well be way off here but I think I make that running costs for the year roughly �4m if the figures of �2.4m invested and �800k debt are correct. �4m seems a bit high to me...

EDIT: just saw on the sports news that total debt is �1.3m. Changing my above calculations (which I must stress I don't have much faith in :D) running costs would be around �4.5m. It would actually be a bit higher as I didn't include the usual sources of income like gate receipts and sponsorship when doing the 65% wages thing.

*does this include backroom staff?

How much debt did Cork have before the start of the season? I thought some of the creditors weren't owed all that much so maybe Arkaga are chancing that they would be written off as bad debts.
19/08/2008, 5:51 PM
higgins

Still nowhere near the 65% mark yet no ??? :)

The FAI are some f**kers!!
Why bring in rules if certain clubs don't have to play by them.

I blame the FAI for this mess. They never have the balls to nip anything before it gets out of control. Cork have themselves to blame of course but if the FAI are serious about the league they would have stepped in long before now.

Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.

If they were serious about the 65% then the monthly accounts of Cork would have showed signs they were in trouble months ago.

Nonsense!!
19/08/2008, 6:01 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I blame the FAI for this mess. They never have the balls to nip anything before it gets out of control. Cork have themselves to blame of course but if the FAI are serious about the league they would have stepped in long before now.

Must have imagined them placing transfer embargos on a few clubs not that long ago...

There's not much the FAI can do other than ensure that the rules and regulations of the league are not being broken by the clubs. Apart from the 65% wage cap they can not control what the clubs do with their money. As Fran Gavin said on MNS Arkaga got Cork City into this mess and are the only ones that can get them out of it. The FAI have been proactive on this issue this season so I don't know why you would think they would turn a blind eye to Cork.
19/08/2008, 6:02 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

*does this include backroom staff?

It is my belief that the 65% figure including coaching staff & possibly off the pitch staff (not 100% sure of this). If coaches were not included would be too easy to fudge the books.

It was interesting to hear Fran Gavin say Galway had breached the 65% rule. It was my belief that once clubs exceeded 55% the FAI intervened & sanctions including points deduction if went past 65%.

It also now appears Arkaga written guarantees of the debts is not worth the paper it was written on. Fran Gavin also said that if they did not following true on that guarantee they don't get licence next season. That is hardly much of a sanction as if you don't pay debts you won;t be around next season.

As always it is the fans that get screwed.
19/08/2008, 6:03 PM
Sheridan

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.

Not really, the smaller clubs have a lot less to lose by stagnating.
19/08/2008, 7:24 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

It was reported by the national public service broadcaster through their main football correspondent (a supposed Cork fan) on MNS last night. I don't think it's falsified.

That is a very generous description .... Mellor from Liverpool to City .... end of

The National Broadcaster at times is nothing better than a tabloid. They wheel out Alan Hunter for every National Team debate ..... the title National Broadcaster might carry some weight, but the sports dept. for that company are nothing short of a horror story at times.

I hate saying but i am ashamed of our National Broadcaster

Quote:

I really don't see how Arkaga can make a statement like that and have any good PR come out of it. It reflects very badly to say "We've spent �2.4m on the club and yet we've managed to run into debt".

They dont really care how it reflects, all you have to do is believe it ... you are doing this .... so move on with the rest of your day.

They couldn't organise a raffle ..... i dont believe that have had other investments with a happy outcome, i think they are a bunch of chancers and are getting away with murder.
19/08/2008, 7:29 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Makes you wonder why smaller clubs try play by the rules when you see the bigger ones getting away without punishment.

Not a ****ing hint of irony either
19/08/2008, 8:03 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Will the accounts of Cork City Investment Fund (that's the name of the company that apparantly own the club?) ever be made public?

Yes, in due course when they're filed with the CRO. It probably wouldn't go into as much info as how much Arkaga put in though.
19/08/2008, 9:48 PM
higgins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Not a ****ing hint of irony either

Yes Dodge!
Because I was Ollie Byrnes number one advisor :rolleyes:

Get over it.

He f**ked up, he got punished, the rest of us are dealing with it.
19/08/2008, 11:01 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

That is a very generous description .... Mellor from Liverpool to City .... end of

The National Broadcaster at times is nothing better than a tabloid. They wheel out Alan Hunter for every National Team debate .....

:confused::confused::confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

They dont really care how it reflects, all you have to do is believe it ... you are doing this .... so move on with the rest of your day.

Bull****. No company wants bad PR, especially one with many other interests like Arkaga has. They have sent Cork backwards and saying they've large amounts of money is going to refelct badly on them.
19/08/2008, 11:22 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

:confused::confused:

Why confused SF, you said that you were willing to believe anything the RTE say? I explained why i wouldn't? Wheres the confusion?

I will say that you probably are not familiar with Noel Spillane so i'll leave that slide. But if you run with two pages, one of which is the whole freaking back page that City are about to sign Mellor from Liverpool without checking it then how can you believe anything from a guy who is talking about this situation, a guy who isn't even on talking terms with anyone at the club who can furnish any information worth printing. Players wont even talk to the guy at this stage.

Quote:

Bull****. No company wants bad PR, especially one with many other interests like Arkaga has. They have sent Cork backwards and saying they've large amounts of money is going to reflect badly on them.

If you believe what they are saying then you have no problem, ignore what i am saying and drive on, no worries ... have a nice day now !!

I dont believe they have all these 'other interests', i think they are a bunch of cowboys and i reckon we'll all see that when we find out the other companies they have been dealing with at the end of this examinership. Google with be our friend SF, but you are a believer so ignore this paragraph ;)
20/08/2008, 12:35 AM
pete

Debt up to 1.3m now with 370k in tax. Fairly clearly Arkaga haven't put a penny into the club since they took over. :mad:

The new CEO was quoted as saying tax (PRSI) bill was paid in July. Clearly he was being very economical with the truth.

Have to wonder what the FAI accounts boyos have been doing especially in relation to the taxes... :confused:
20/08/2008, 1:10 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Have to wonder what the FAI accounts boyos have been doing especially in relation to the taxes... :confused:

Taxes? what taxes? ... when did this happen? Ahh yeah, sure ... yeah, its all in hand .... sorry you cant comment on this in official matchday programmes, what taxes? What problem?
20/08/2008, 5:57 AM
stann

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

It was reported by the national public service broadcaster through their main football correspondent (a supposed Cork fan) on MNS last night. I don't think it's falsified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

That is a very generous description .... Mellor from Liverpool to City .... end of

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

:confused::confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Why confused SF, you said that you were willing to believe anything the RTE say? I explained why i wouldn't? Wheres the confusion?

Even from the outside looking in I can see why he's confused. :D
Noel Spillane was only on as a guest interviewee, don't know what he and Neil Mellor have got to do with anything here. Would have thought it was quite obvious that the chap superfrank was referring to, as RTE's main soccer correspondent, and Cork City fan, and indeed the chap who mentioned the 2.4M, is Tony O'Donoghue.
20/08/2008, 7:31 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

he got punished, the rest of us are dealing with it.

Earlier you said big clubs don't get punished...
20/08/2008, 8:31 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by stann

the chap who mentioned the 2.4M, is Tony O'Donoghue.

Ok, picked that up wrong so but generally my point stands. If RTE use guys like Alan Hunter and Noel Spillane then their content should be questioned, and it should be questioned anyway. you shouldn't believe what any section of the media tell you straight away and assume it is true.
20/08/2008, 8:50 AM
stann

Don't worry, I don't. Particularly with Alan Hunter! :D
Just trying to undo the confusion is all. Whether superfrank is willing to take TO'D's figure at face value is a matter for himself, though in fairness it seemingly is Arkaga's number, so it's to them the doubt should apply in this instance.
20/08/2008, 8:50 AM
pineapple stu

In the Indo today that the FAI have confirmed Arkaga have reneged on their agreement to pay all Cork's debts. The document obviously never had a shred of legality if Arkaga can get out of it so easily, and the FAI can let them.

I wonder who owns the players' contracts?
20/08/2008, 11:48 AM
razor

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In the Indo today that the FAI have confirmed Arkaga have reneged on their agreement to pay all Cork's debts. The document obviously never had a shred of legality if Arkaga can get out of it so easily, and the FAI can let them.

Figured that by what Fran Gavin said on MNS the other night when asked about this.
The only penalty,he said, will be that CCFC won't get a licence next year.
20/08/2008, 4:58 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor

Figured that by what Fran Gavin said on MNS the other night when asked about this.
The only penalty,he said, will be that CCFC won't get a licence next year.

Jeez, Arkaga will be gutted :rolleyes:
20/08/2008, 5:18 PM
pete

We can't blame the FAI for our problems but I think licencing & the 65% wage thing have now been shown to be pretty much useless.

If Fran Gavin had not appeared on MNS we not have known for another while that the the written guarantee to pay debts was worthless.

Noel Spillane doesn't have a lot of credibility with City fans. He famously fell for a scam by former City player that Neil Mellor was to sign for City. :D

I think it is unfair to lump MNS in with the other dubious practices by RTE in relation to Hunter etc...