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I've just read an article by Mick Wallace and in it he mentions that the cost of the match officials for our home cup game against Killester was 1,260. This seems very high for a ref, 2 linos and a 4th official. Is it based on a fixed fee plus expenses etc. or does anyone know?
I won't even get into value for money, given the general standard, but that is a huge cost for smaller clubs
How exactly does this 'cost' work? Are these officials not provided by the FAI?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianw82
Would you like it if some published how your wages were worked out on a public forum?
Christ on a bike, why is everyone on this forum so accusatory?Quote:
Would you like it if some published how your wages were worked out on a public forum?
What I meant was, why does the home team have to pay for the match officials? If it's an FAI-sanctioned game, and if the officials are employed by the FAI, shouldn't they be paid by the FAI for officiating? Whatever or wherever the game?
It wasn't meant to sound that way sorry.
Here's the article Mick wrote.
He basically slates Fran Gavin for not allowing Wexford and Kildare to push their league game back a week, from Monday July 28th to Monday August 4th. Having it on the bank holiday would mean both clubs could avoid having to take players out of work.
And about the cost of match officials, I know at least some of it is expenses based on mileage. A certain wee 4th official from Rosslare was taken to task over what he was claiming for our home games.
Surely that would work out bad for the likes of us, Harps, Cork and Cobh? I thought each club paid the same amount to the League and then money was then paid out by them? Could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaWexford
I think match officials are subsidised for league but not cup games. The fees often mean that the home club makes less than the away club in these games.
Think it works that way for league games alright, don't know about cup games.
its about €500 for a league game and anything from €1000 up for a cup game know one club paying €1500 for a midweek cup game last season
Friendlies can be very expensive too. Apparently some of our pre-season home games cost over 700 for officials.
Normally (i.e. in other Leagues in the UK) - it's a match fee, plus mileage expenses - plus a meal allowance if traveling over a certain distance.
It's paid out for by the home club - and in some Leagues they total up all the fees at the end of a season, work out an average cost per club - and then reimburse some clubs who paid out over the average and get shortfall out of clubs if below the average - basically each club pays out the same amount.
I don't know what the system employed in the FAI is though
I know in England that if a non-league club plays a league side in a friendly then they have to have a referee from the higher club's level - and he must be paid the match fee for the higher league level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
e.g. Non-League side play League 1 team - Referee must be on the Football League list and the home club must pay the referee Football League fees.
Well we just played Premier Division teams this year. Whether that made a difference I don't know. It's a lot considering the low gate you'd be taking in. It's the same for all clubs I guess.
Teh fee actually depends on the make up of the teams. In a league game in the first division the officials cost about 500 a game but then in a cup game just say you get a prem team, the ref (even if hes only first div standard) suddenly becomes a prem div ref so his fee for the cork city Limerick cup game this year was ............ 2000 :mad:
The following price list was allegedly retrieved from the dressing room of an unnamed Dublin club by an undisclosed individual and its authenticity cannot be verified:
Cost of match officials
Referee: 250
Referee and one assistant: 300
Referee and both assistants: 400
Penalty kick (minutes 1 to 89): 150
Penalty kick (minute 90 onwards): 275
Red card: 85
Free-kick on edge of box: 45
Massage with "happy finish": 60
Screwing over the Corkies: Priceless
Refereeing match in accordance with FIFA statues: Service currently unavailable.
The standards of officiating in the first division, twenty euro and a can of coke would be enough. Infact scrap the can of coke, they are overweight enough without more sugar...
Worth every penny! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gael353
Genuinely shocked at some the figures mentioned here.
Talk about poor value for money.
But this is referees we're talking about, not real people!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Battery Rover
Anyway, enough of the speculation, below are the actual figures from the 2007 season. I don't know if they were increased for this season or not. For league games the league itself used to cover the expenses. For cup games the clubs have to pay the expenses which explains the high figures already given:
Premier Division ref: 160
Premier Division other officials: 120 each
First Division ref: 130
First Division other officials: 95 each
U21 ref: 85
U21 other officials: 50
Expenses:
Loss of earnings: half day 60, full day 120
Meal allowance: > 50 miles 20, > 100 miles 35
Overnight accommodation: 60
Mileage rate: 0.72
Cross Dublin city travel: 20
Pitch inspection: 40
In fairness, there is no way 35 would cover enough food for the average 1st division referee.
As for 40 for a pitch inspection, Jaysus
Do they pay income tax on any of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stato
If they all share a car they each get the mileage (not that I totally object to this, as a sometime environmentalist I like to see car-pooling).
Before we all get carried away with another wave of referee bashing a few facts should be considered.
1. Mick Wallace should not have made the referees fees public. There is an agreed framework for Mr Wallace to follow if he has a grievance with this. As its general practice for clubs not to release the earnings of their players then the same respect should be accorded to referees.
2. All fees and expenses are set and agreed at the start of the season. All clubs are made aware of this agreement. Expense claims etc are subject to audit and approval by the FAI before they are paid to referees. In the FAI Cup/friendlies all fees and expenses are paid on the night.
3. Fans are generally not aware of the time and commitment involved in refereeing in the Eircom League. Increased requirements in the areas of fitness, diet, time off work, family commitments etc are not taken into consideration when discussing referee's fees. Aside from the day of the match, referees are training 4/5 days a week and are performing on a semi-professional basis. There are several fitness tests during the season to ensure all officials meet UEFA fitness standards.
4. In comparison to leagues of a similar size in Europe (not the big 5), the match fees paid to Eircom League referee's are significantly lower.
5. Refereeing is a pressurised job that not many are willing to take on. Add to that the levels of physical and verbal abuse that referee's are likely to encounter and one could argue that the fees are very modest indeed. When one considers the amount EL clubs are paying their players these days, referee's can hardly be blamed for bleeding clubs dry.
6. Referees are an easy target and its too easy to constantly criticise decisions and say they are not fit. Football is a game of opinions and the referee is likely to be a controversial participant when a critical decision is to be made. Human error is part of football (by both players and officials!), its always been part of the game and more than likely will be for a some time to come. Referee's do their utmost to ensure mistakes are not made.
So lay off the guys in black and give them a break. Ok, so some decisions infuriate you now and again but lets keep a balanced perspective...they're not responsible for all the worlds problems!!
I have no sympathy for refs, do your job and nothing will be said to you. If you are not capable of doing your job you will get abuse so i would say leave it then.
Not really, but neither would I have a problem with someone publishing the typical cost of a plumber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Battery Rover
Dubref makes some good points. Maybe Wexford Youths are a bit different given their amateur status, but most clubs around have more pressing financial worries than the cost of referees. Finally, I'd like to point out that the referee is likely costing less than the electricity to run the floodlights during the game.
good post!Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
yes, but often we have seen referees requiring the floodlights to be switched on even though the light is more than adequate!Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
They're all too acutely aware of the absolute balls they make of a lot of people's (paid and unpaid) hard work, though.Quote:
3. Fans are generally not aware of the time and commitment involved in refereeing in the Eircom League.
So is the standard of refereeing, as European games prove every season.Quote:
4. In comparison to leagues of a similar size in Europe (not the big 5), the match fees paid to Eircom League referee's are significantly lower.
Clubs make a conscious and informed decision to pay players as they choose based on the player's perceived ability. They have to fork out for chancers like Tomney regardless of what crimes they perpetrate against the game.Quote:
When one considers the amount EL clubs are paying their players these days, referee's can hardly be blamed for bleeding clubs dry.
I agree. It's far too easy to say that about Irish referees, and that's the problem.Quote:
6. Referees are an easy target and its too easy to constantly criticise decisions and say they are not fit.
I believe that the fees for refs are a commercial agreement between FAI and Club and should not be put out to the public like any agreement of that kind.
Someone can correct me on that if its wrong.
Would you ever cop on?Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
Firstly can I ask you about your username ' DubRef' and ask if your opinion comes from a neutral position?
Why should this information not be made public? If it involves the everyday cost of running our league, then supporters should know where their entrance fee is being spent.
Read the first post by me here, I am not referring to the quality of refereees
After watching Bohs 2 home European games, I wouldn't agree with that sentiment. See Heary's red card as evidence. Maybe the less experienced refs are assigned to the Intertoto admittedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
Having seen our euro game, Im with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by misterk
I'm with DubRef on this one
Can I ask you about your username and ask if your opinion comes from a neutral position?Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
Yes you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
Do you want it to be public how much every player, the backroom staff, the electricity, the ballboys.................how much all of them make? How much does it cost to produce your programme? Some of the information regarding the expenses of the club is also private information regarding individuals, and should be respected as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
It's up to each ref to declare his earnings to the Revenue each year and pay any tax due. Given that the Revenue have been keeping a very close eye on the clubs in recent times I've no doubt that the refs are paying tax on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
As far as I'm aware this is checked and, say you've four officials travelling in one car from Cork to Galway, only the driver gets the mileage.Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
Just a couple of points I'd like to add:
The fees and expenses are not agreed with the clubs, they are agreed by the referees representatives and the FAI and are imposed on the clubs, the clubs have no say in their level whatsoever. As a result Mick Wallace has no framework that he can follow to air his grievance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
I'd love to know how that Armenian ref who reffed the Olimps v Pats match manages to pass these tests!Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
But referees know this is part of the job before they even take up refereeing. The abuse can be even greater at lower levels where the referees fees are smaller. I don't believe it's a job someone takes up for the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
Between league, cup, friendlies, A league and U20 games it's possible that a club could pay anywhere from 15K to 20K a year on referees' fees. For clubs towards the lower end of the table that could represent the gate receipts from two or three home fixtures so it's not an insignificant amount, hence Mick Wallace's gripe.Quote:
Originally Posted by DubRef
Just because he was huge doesn't mean he wasn't fit. He easily kept the pace of the game and, IMO, was one of the better refs I've seen this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Stato